Trans woman in Riot Women! WTF?

Where did I say ALL women?

I specifically said ‘hates women without his approved opinions’.

You feel safe from his hostility because you hold his approved opinions, clearly. Well done you.

It sounds like you are comfortable with his violent language being aimed at SOME women.

And yes, ‘Fuck Terfs’ IS violent language aimed at women despite the utterly desperate claim from PP that it is not violent or threatening.

I think Sally Wainwright definitely gets complete autonomy. If she didn’t she’d just take her work to a different platform. No TV channel would turn her away, in fact they’re probably fervently hoping she falls out with the Beeb. She’s the hottest TV writer around now.

What utter nonsense. “We all wish the actor well” doesn’t line up with calling them woman hating, threatening violence, and creepy.

You’re either deluded or shit stirring for the funsies.

Wearing that T-shirt does not mean hating all women. Not all women espouse your opinions - I for one do not feel the least bit as if that shirt is aimed at me.

The pp is not doing anything you claim. They are politely pointing out facts.
We all wish the actor well. A different drama that isn't particularly about women may be better suited.

Bundle, you’re spamming this thread with bullshit assertions about an actual named human being.

Please stop.

You’re actively inciting online hostility towards a person who has done nothing more than be trans in the world.

There is nothing horrible about using correct pronouns. No one has been insulting about his appearance or his manner. Facts are facts though.

The drama is about women. To put a trans person in the band is just clunky and unnecessary.

If there was a show about male erectile dysfunction <for example. I'm obviously not saying that equates in any way to the menopause> and a transperson joined their band and said in interviews because she took testeoserone she could relate I'd say that was wrong too.

Both. I’m not muddled. Women supporting an actor who obviously hates women without his approved opinions might be a bit muddled.

I don’t think wearing a t shirt that says, for example “fuck the elite” is violent or threatening in anyway.

Placards or t-shirts etc with fuck the whatever are a long established mode of expression in politics and activism across the board.

Fuck the patriarchy is one of my personal favourites. Fuck Tories has been around for decades as a well loved protest.

It’s not violent or threatening, and saying it is over and over again doesn’t make it so.

I also really object to the near constant deliberate use of male pronouns on this thread for the actor being discussed. If you don’t agree with using she/her that’s fine, but going out of your way to repeatedly use he/him/man is horrible.

There’s a lot of mockery on the FWR board directed at trans people saying they don’t feel safe in their place of work or online because of targeted abuse.

Let’s just take a moment to remember there’s a real identifiable human playing that role. And a lot of other trans people seeing them getting hauled over the internet coals for the massive crime of being a transwoman cast to play the minor role of a transwoman in a tv show.

They’re literally just doing their job. and there are multiple posters here determined to position them as threatening, violent, creepy etc.

It’s so horrible seeing the anti trans sentiment of mn escalating year on year. Pushing back on this actor and this role is nothing but transphobia.

Why do we need to acknowledge that though?

Also the ability to distinguish the actor from the character played would be nice - the programme is fiction, after all.

Are we now separating the ‘art’ from the ‘artist’ now in order to excuse a man using violent language towards women? Ok.

I suppose thinking about it, it would have been REALLY weird if Sally had written the character more truthfully for that actor. Imagine - he turns up at band rehearsal with his ‘Fuck Terfs’ t shirt and the lesbian (by definition a terf if she is actually a lesbian) has to leave the room.

I haven't called anybody on here a cunt or a terf. If some posters declare that they refuse to watch this series because in a 6-hour long drama, a trans character appears probably for less than 2 minutes, that is their prerogative. Why should I care whether these posters watch it or not?

Personally I haven't called anyone anything - I just find it baffling that all the focus in the comments about this programme is on one character with a tiny part when it addresses so many huge issues faced by women.

I abhor TRAs who namecall just as much as I do the kind of people who do cowardly strikethroughs when calling transwomen perverts. Two cheeks of the same arse, as it were.

It's is fiction. It is not a documentary. The author of fiction decides the content. You seem to be requiring journalistic standards of reportage to be applied to a Sunday night entertainment programme. It is a childish argument and immensely irritating.

That’s not what I asked though. I’m trying to understand where the supporters are coming from. Why you (plural) are happy to call women c*nts and terfs and justify violent male language simply for expressing our opinions on the subject? That’s all we’ve done here.

Why?

Are you complaining about the character, the actor or both? You seem a little muddled.

What do you want me to say? I’m not prepared to get into horse trading about ‘which misogyny is the worst’, I see them all as two cheeks of the same arse. Men, regardless of their ‘identity’ beating up and raping women is bad. Removing women’s rights and our words necessary to advocate for ourselves is also bad.

Men expressing violent language towards women in public is bad. Women defending, justifying and minimising it is also bad.

I am still a bit gobsmacked about PP earlier using male violence against women as a means to stop us talking about this particular strand of misogyny.

Why are some women on this thread so focused on defending the casting of this man? Would you have been gutted if there wasn’t a trans identifying young man in this programme about middle aged women and their lives?

It isn't disproportionate hatred. I don't hate trans people they can dress as they wish thats fine, I just won't be complicit in their delusions about changing sex.

The actor even says in an interview that trans people take hrt so there's that link with menopausal women!! I mean seriously. Men do not experience menopausal problems and how very typical that a trans person would try to liken it to their experiences.

I don’t think it’s to get people talking. I think it’s the writer’s message about acceptance and recognition of difference. Increasingly important in a world where people parrot what they hear in the right wing media and spout histrionic and disproportionate hatred of whole groups of people. We’ve seen this kind of behaviour before and it doesn’t end well.

'the point she is making is that literally none of the comments about this programme are about the horrific violence against women depicted, as committed by Men Who Are Not Trans. And yet all the comments are about one trans actor/character - it does give the impression that opposing the trans and painting them all as a collective of predators'

We can all agree that male violence toward women is abhorrent. I don't think anyone has suggested we should accept it and say it's ok? It is part of the drama though. Granted why SW included such a graphic scene is questionable.

I also don't think anyone is suggesting that all trans people are predators, rather pointing out they are men and therefore not necessary in a drama about a female only band, particularly one that is singing about women's issues.

Are you missing the point deliberately?

'Just don't watch the show if the very brief appearance of a trans woman in a very minor role bothers you so much'

No need to miss the show, it is very good. His appearance is brief and not remotely central to the story. No idea why he's in it tbh unless it's to get people talking which has happened here.

It was entirely appropriate because that's how it was written, and the character that the writer wanted there.

Your feelings or opinion on that do not fucking matter.

I was referring to the fact that the actor seems to be an unpleasant person, but the character isn't. Aside from the 'trans people shouldn't be seen, heard or even exist' narrative on here, there seems to be conflation between actor and character.

Anyone thinking SW was coerced into writing this character into the show is deluded. So author's prerogative and all that.

As for your reaction to @blossomtoes , the point she is making is that literally none of the comments about this programme are about the horrific violence against women depicted, as committed by Men Who Are Not Trans. And yet all the comments are about one trans actor/character - it does give the impression that opposing the trans and painting them all as a collective of predators is more important to some people than opposing actual violence committed by men.

I don't understand why you keep mentioning the male violence in the show. We know men can be violent, that's why we don't want them in female only places.