To think we spend too long ‘parenting’ now, and it’s turned young adults into eternal children?

and lots of posters showing off their "excellent" parenting

Ugh! This

people raising a solitary 10 year old, offering their "expertise" and judgement to families with older kids

I stayed til my mid 20s in my parents home. Until i got my first permanent full time job and was out within 6 months My brother a little later. But we cooked the family dinner/ the laundry/ cleaning and paid a bit of rent. (Our parents wanted us to save) We didnt expect our parents to wait on us.

I was speaking to a woman at the train station once and was shocked. She was complaining about her son staying up til the early hours yelling while gaming. I think she said he was 23. He had a part time job. But on his off time he just gamed. Didnt do anything round the house.

I mean i could be a bit insufferable in my late teens and early 20s and moan about chores etc. But to be that inconsiderate and yelling into the early hours?? And not even help round the house? Did smacj of over indulgence

I don't think anyone has ever said that children are more mature now?

Support, yes. Allow them to waste their lives? No. We are constantly told that DC are so much more mature nowadays, and I look at ten year old boys and wonder how they would fare as an 18th century midshipman - probably not at all - or a picker in a cotton mill, or in service in a stable. Ditto girls as milliners' apprentices, servants, mill workers etc. They are not more mature, they are just allowed to be sexually active at too young an age and otherwise mollycoddled. I parent my DC but emy late DH did a better job on my son, his step-son, than I did. Being a youth worker by profession he managed to turn a teenage drop-out who thought work was something you turned up for as and when into a responsible young man who owns his own house and holds down a very well-paying job. It was hard words, I think, but it worked.

I think there have always been parents who ‘over-parent’ and infantalising adult children.

i used to manage graduates and my favorite story is the woman who range to check if her 23 year son needed a packed lunch on his first day and if I would go down and meet him at the front door🫣.

that was 15 years ago. He struggled with independent thought and needed reassurance all the time. That may have been his personality, dot I strongly suspect his mother’s parenting style contributed.

Do you have 17-21 year old child ? I moved out at 18 ( got kicked out)and had a mortgage at 23. I don’t expect my children to move out at that age . They live in a completely different world , compared to me at that age and I’m early 40s

I agree actually, although I acknowledge life is very different now to when I was growing up. We all left home at 18, went to uni, then got a job, bought flats, and generally cracked on. My mum was clear she wanted her life, and her house back, and I totally agree with that, she did her bit (very well) while we were children. I can see though that things are more difficult now in some ways, with housing being so expensive as an example. That doesn’t mean though that young people can’t be brought up with resilience and taught to face life head on, not have mum and dad continually support them… must be exhausting for the parents (who probably work full time and may still have their own parents on the scene too..)

It sounds like quite nice place that you rented. I am out of touch but checking on Spare Room there are plenty of listings at £500-£600 and below.

The rooms at £1,000 are really nice and no way would I have expected to be in one of those fresh in the city and looking for work.

I moved to London in my late 20's and had to "slum it" in a small room in a non central area until my earnings allowed me to afford better. It was not ideal for what I would have like but perfectly adequate and I made do.

At that time all the good places were snapped up within minutes too, I remember it being disheartening but it was what it was.

My kids left home on average at 25, but they were encouraged to work and earn once education was finished. I did not accept them shut in their rooms gaming until all hours, not even looking for a part time job. then getting arsey because they had no money.
They were supported and encouraged, it paid off and now all are doing relatively well and happy in their lives.
I do think some parents molly coddle too long into the mid teens onwards though. Kids need space to breathe and find out about life in a constructive way, but it seems some mums just can't let go and hang on.

I think it's all about finding a happy medium.

I'm probably guilty of pampering my adult daughter, but I see it as working with her to support her in overcoming her anxiety.
She's making progress, so must be doing something right.

My own mum was the opposite with me.
She took control of my bank card when I was working long shifts, took half my wages to spend on pamper treatments for herself while refusing to have the heating on for me. I had to buy my own food out of what I had left.

I think that's why I have gone to the other extreme with my own children.

Also you can have two kids who are very different and have different needs and parenting. DD2 has ASD and ADHD and has always needed more scaffolding to be able to do things independently, and that's ok. DD1 automatically wants to be independent and you need to know when to step in or rein her in. It can actually sometimes be harder to help someone who doesn't ask for help.

My parents were still helping and support me in my 40s and same for PIL with DH.

It was reciprocal though. We help out PIL with stuff around the house and look after their dog. I helped my mum care for DF when he was very unwell and passed away from heart failure. I took great care of my mum in her final weeks along with an excellent palliative care team at home. They both had as peaceful a death as anyone could wish for. I'd do the same for PIL any time.

What do you know about it? You didn't even know how many there were, how can you POSSIBLY know that there's too many?

Exactly. This a typical MN thread with very rigid, binary right/wrong thinking and lots of posters showing off their "excellent" parenting which is the only possible way of doing things.

In reality, it's a grey area, no one way of parenting is perfect, kids & families are all different & lots of this thread is based on over generalised "hearsay" or extreme examples being touted as the norm.

Perhaps some parent go over the top and infantilise now, but perhaps that's because they suffered from withdrawal of parenting too soon as some parents in the past were a fucking nightmare and kicked kids out in their teens whether or not they had the means or skills to be financially independent, and also didn't care enough what happened to them.

Also, good luck with them getting through university without parental financial support. It's build into the system that parents are expected to fund them. In the 1990s when I went we'd just been through a huge recession, my mum had lost her business and we nearly lost our house. They could only afford to give me a few quid here and there but it didn't matter because I had a grant, a loan and a part time job. My DDs have both worked part time from 16 as well but jobs are not always easy to find.

DD1 lucked out turning 16 in 2021 getting a job in a restaurant chain when it was much easier just as everything opened up again and lots of places needed staff, fast. Then she put in a word for her sister and basically got her a trial shift, now DD2 works there too, so we were lucky. They are both conscientious, presentable and reliable, which goes a long way. DD2 does have ADHD and ASD though and has overcome huge anxiety.

I suspect you don't have older kids yourself.

I would have agreed with you until about a year ago- now I'm less ignorant.

This.

Do you have children OP?

If so, how old are they?

My DS is 20. He's at uni, has a part-time job, has a grad job lined up, and overall is independent and doing well.

But none of this has come easy, and I've provided a lot of help, support and guidance every step of the way. I'll continue to do this because I love him and want the best for him.

My mum still gives me help and support and I'm nearly 50!

There's a happy middle ground, as with everything in life.

Many posters are so right - life is much more challenging for young people now.

However, I agree with @Whatafustercluck . We're not doing enough parenting to prepare children for these challenges. Communication skills are poor. Resilience is poor. Life skills are lacking. I'm an employer. We'll advertise a Monday to Friday 9-5 location based job with higher than average pay and most of the younger interviewees will ask about home working, flexible working, can they bring their dog to work, a late start on a Thursday because mum does nightshift on a Wednesday so won't be home on time to wake them up .... before they even get round to showing any real interest in the role. (And a recent phenomenon is parents calling to ask why their child didn't get the job they were OBVIOUSLY perfect for)

I know several 18 - 20 year olds who have had jobs they left after a few weeks because they didn't like it - working in a bakery but not allowed to have their phone with them, a call centre role but their social anxiety meant they couldn't talk to customers, retail but too tiring having to load boxes. I've also had young relatives ask me for advice about the "bullying" they are experiencing at work - when I ask them to explain the nature of the bullying it's really just being told what to do...

Are we scared of saying no to our children? Are we making life too easy for them which means they can't cope when they have to go out there and live? Yes, it's tough but we're doing our kids no favours by not giving them the skills to cope.

My son didn't go to university after a levels as he didn't really know what he wanted to do. We were very firm with him in that he was either in education or working, but that we were not supporting him to do nothing. He chose to work, paid us bed and board and left home at 19 to live in a flat share with 3 of his friends. He cooked and cleaned when he was at home and he was used to paying us rent so it wasn't a big shock for him when he left.

He is totally and completely independent, but still calls and visits us every week, he still asks us for advice about work and life, we are still his parents, but do not actively parent him. Our relationship has moved on and whilst we are all family we are also independent of each other.

I would not have it any other way, I see it as being totally normal. I think a lot of people baby their kids for far longer than is natural and kids don't have the confidence or life skills to cope with life, when you add in the job situation and living costs, it's no wonder they struggle. Parenting seems to have swung from benign neglect to helicopter parenting on steroids, there should surely be some middle ground.

Honestly I'd have to say I agree with this. I've 2 DC with SEN and they are more independent than some of their neurotypical peers. We've scaffolded them of course, but never assumed their diagnoses meant they couldn't do things, just that they'd maybe have to do things a bit differently or learn differently.

A friend whose kids are neurotypical was horrified that I'd "let" DS19 choose a uni in London (we're in Scotland) and said she'd never let her kids go as far away as London, she'd be worried sick and would never sleep a wink - totally forgetting that at university age, they're no longer bairns, they're adults! That's the course he wanted - one of the best in the UK for his subject. Why would we, as his parents, want to hold him back for the sake of our own comfort? Baffles me.

My wee one is 10 also and I've definitely learned how I don't want to parent her. My brother and I were raised by the same parents but very, very differently and I can see that in both our own approaches to parenting. But also I had a conversation with some people not long ago and none of their teenagers do housework. Not even the ones who are 18/19. No chores, never had, weren't asked to, had everything done for them. I feel like in some ways kids have it so much harder but in other ways we're keeping them helpless and actively making it harder. I think there's a lot to be said for encouraging responsibility and independence. Just not going too far the other way!

I suspect you don't have older kids yourself.

I would have agreed with you until about a year ago- now I'm less ignorant.

My now 19 year son son applied for endless jobs in his gap year last year and, honestly, it was soul destroying for him for months
Not even knock backs, just ignored.
And this has happened time and again with other friends' perfectly capable older children
Obviously we can't magic up jobs but it's pretty dim to suggest that just because you did it, so should they.
I left home at 16- very immature but held down a job and a tenancy - whoopy do- I can see how vastly different it was for me then than it is for older teens/young adults now
Eventually my son got a job and now he's doing great but that was so lucky- if he'd failed to get that one job he'd probably still be unemployed.
He's taking a second gap year as the first was mostly a damp squib.
He's working his arse off to ensure he has money for university next year and that he can fund some travelling this year. His job's with a great company and he can transfer it to his university town.
His life and prospects are immeasurably better than they were a year ago and all thanks to this one job.
He's since managed to help a friend get a job at his workplace and is doing the same with another. Will also do all he can to help his sister! So all those kids' lives will have vastly improved.
So much of this is sheer luck and opportunity.

I disagree. Its always been hard, especially since teens are typically low earners. I left home at 18 and it was one of the hardest financial situations I've ever been in. It's never been easy, and ime not even particularly easier. Rent and council tax was even then a hell of a stretch on their own and was the vast majority of my wage.

i think ‘too long parenting’ is the wrong phraseology. I think many spend too long infantilising.
My 10 year old exceeds a lot of the descriptions of young adults on here. It’s really sad to see - but if you find yourself fixing your grown up child’s every problem and tidying up after them it’s not over parenting or over caring, it’s definitely infantilising and enabling.

"What I find odd these days, is the number of parents on MN claiming their DC are ND (ADHD is the popular one at the moment), have MH which is the school/college/uni/State's job to sort out.

It really isn't. CAMHS waiting list is so long because no system can cope with the number of young people (and their parents) who can't accept that life is hard but you've got to sort it out for yourself."

Please take a look at the suicide rate for people with ADHD before writing things like this.

The list is so long because the ADHD attributes (many of which were an advantage in the past) aren't suited to life in a huge population where you can't even work as a ditch digger without being able to read and write.