To think we spend too long ‘parenting’ now, and it’s turned young adults into eternal children?

No, I truly believe it was for the best. 18 is perfectly reasonable and I’m now far more independent, and happy, than my friends whose parents were much more enabling.

I lived at home after uni to save & my parents also gave me a large cash figure to get on the London property ladder (none of my peers bought without some form of help). So this would class as enabling surely?

It's made a huge difference to my financial stability & in turn my dcs. For me that's a positive.

Because I learnt how to:
Cook safely, using an oven, boiling water etc. I also learnt that food took time and effort to prepare and clean away. It doesn't just 'appear' in front of me!
I learnt how to safely cross a road, stick to paths, not talk to strangers.
I learnt how to read a bus time table, plan my day so I could get home on time, take everything that I needed with me to go swimming etc otherwise I would miss out. A parent wouldnt save me every 5mins because I 'forgot' something.
I learnt to plan ahead and prepare.

So in answer to your question my life skills allowed me to get a job in a career that I absolutely loved age 16 because I outshine the other 20 odd, older candidates who lacked the confidence and independent thought that I had I guess....

I don't think it's just about not living away from home, though.
It's when your kids still live at home and you are still making dentist appointments for them, filling in job applications for them, and all that.

Fair enough not being able to afford to move out, but barring any specific needs, your children should be doing their own adult administration. Advice and assistance is one thing. Doing it all for them like they are still in primary school is another.

You’re talking about something completely different. Of course we spoil our kids when they come home.
But we also know they are capable of living an independent life because of what we taught them as teens.

Id expect a 14yo to take turns making dinner for the family, yes.

The difference between packed lunch/dinner is who it's feeding. If it's just 1 person, they do it themselves. DS was making his own packed lunch for school by Y2. If it's for a group/family/more than 1, you take turns. My teens will make each other lunches if they're making for them selves. Making a sandwich - automatically ask if anyone else wants one. It's just common courtesy isn't it?

YANBU. I just had a look at house shares in my city. There are plenty, in decent areas, perfectly clean and fine ( better than the grotty places I lived!) for between 500 and 700 a month bills included. If a 20 year old is taking home 1500 that’s very doable.
More disposable income than I have right now anyway! Jobs are really hard to come by and yes young people have more obstacles than we did but if you have a job then the next step ought to be to find a place.
Ive helped and pushed and facilitated way more than my parents ever did, but I’m backing off now. There’s only one way to learn independence and that’s by actually being independent.

@MotherofPufflings I don't believe I ever said one should?

One benefit of being a Londoner is free school meals for all dc & even when it wasn't free we paid so it's really very rare that I have had to do packed lunches.

Wow. I'm 40, left home at 18, came back at 24 for 1 year then moved away again. Had a job since I was 16, went to uni and got a job after graduating. But I always knew I was welcome home whenever I wanted to go back. My parents have supported me throughout my life with whatever choice I've made. I've never asked for money but always know I can ask. Every time I go home my mum makes my breakfast, dinner, spoils me rotten and its never taken for granted - its called being a loving parent. All this bo**ocks about making kids resilient by teaching them life is hard, making them struggle - oh please we aren't living in the dark ages.

I don’t disagree about things like access to housing benefits being harder to get but when I graduated in 1992 none of my, mostly middle class, friends expected or did live in a studio flat to themselves!
They lived in a succession of house shares of varying degrees of grottiness well into their 20s, for a couple of them working in London this extended well into their 30s.

I do think expectations have changed for a lot of people, I know people in their 20s on average or below comes talking about how they “have to” replace the kitchen and bathroom before they move into their new flat or house when the particulars they are showing us just show them to be a bit outdated but perfectly serviceable. A lot of people don’t seem to be willing to make do for a while whilst they save and do things bit by bit, I do wonder whether our parenting has contributed to this.

I didn’t know anyone who lived outside of university accommodation except for the obligatory 2nd year in private student rentals. A couple of my friends’ children and some people my daughter knows lived in private rentals from the start because student accommodation is “grotty” or they couldn’t be expected to share a bathroom.

This!!! I worked with a 26 year old who ordered Deliveroo every lunchtime! She loved in an Aunties house with no rent, and said she would go supermarket shopping once or twice a month to treat her!! WTF!! She spent money on pumped lips and lashes and thought all the men in the office should treat her and bring food in. She also had a Mercedes on PCP. Basically spending all her wage on 'things' while not paying rent and board.
All went tits up when Auntie disapproved of a shag she bought home at 3am one night.

@Nescafeneeded do you have children? Just wondering.

I’m a bit older than you - when I was a teen people I knew were absolutely getting jobs and work experience via their parents, getting house deposits and cars from their parents etc into their 20s. I don’t think that’s new. For info, mine did not do any of those things. They were of the ‘turf you out at 18’ variety. Made me not feel very close to them, tbh.

My kids can cook and do some housework, but I will be here to support them and let them live at home as they wish, though we are likely to downsize and move once they finish school.

I do think things are harder now. Cost of living, the job market, AI starting to replace entry level jobs and the state of public services are all making things harder.

I would not like to see the extreme situation you depict, but I also don’t want to shrug if they’re struggling.

Ours did sometimes make dinner as teens but if not they were responsible for tidying away after.

In the last year of school they did all their own laundry including ironing school shirts etc.
It taught responsibility- no laundry =no clean clothes to wear and the consequences of that.

It’s not about being hard on them, it’s about teaching life skills, planning and consequences of action/inaction.

It's the idea that a parent "should" make their child's lunch that I think is problematic. And from a time point of view it's really bloody useful not needing to make more packed lunches than necessary even if it takes a bit longer when they're first learning.

Why didn't your child make yours and theirs. My DD would often make her own lunch (from age 9), and ask me what I wanted for mine and make that as well, granted the cheese rolls were more cheese than roll sometimes but she did it.

@Cherrytree86 again I don't have a 14 yr old but where did I say it would harm them or that they would be incapable?

Absolutely. I'll wash my sons' clothes if they're in the basket, but they each do at least a load a week and wash their own bedding, DS2 even irons as his uniform requires it.
I feel we strike the right balance between parenting and giving them a stable base to push off from while gradually stepping back. They are expected to do their own life admin, but know when to ask for help.
I didn't get any parental support from the age of about 14, I was expected to get on with life.
I dropped out of college twice, ran away at 17 with a man nearly twice my age, came back for a few months and left home at 18 to live in a dodgy house share and ended up pregnant by 21...
There's a balance to be struck, and it's hard because life is very different now.

@teacupzs

so?? It won’t harm a 14 year old to make their own lunch!

Why do you think that’s high? Around 11% of children in the UK are estimated to be disabled and there are around 14 million children aged 4-18. 11% of 14,000,000 is about 1.5 million. Not every disabled child would meet the threshold for an EHCP but a million doesn’t seem ‘very very high’ to me.

I would expect a 14 year old to see to their own lunch, not dinner as parent normally cooks for the family and that’s economies of scale, and is being done anyway.

How is lunch not economies of scale or doesn't have to be done anyway?

It’s a tough one because the financial picture is different these days. But things like people coming on and asking what their 18 year old should wear to a job interview is something I find weird. That’s for the 18 year old to figure out.

I find it all such a paradox. Kids now on the surface grow up faster, they know how to curl their hair and do a face of make up at 13 but it doesn’t always seem to translate to useful life skills.

Im in my 50’s too and think for a lot of reasons life was easier growing up when we did. I don’t remember all the pressures that teens today have being an issue then. We could literally walk out if one job into another. When we bought our first house we sold our car to pay the deposit. You couldn’t do that now. I honestly think life is harder for young people now.

In some respects, I agree. A lot young adults in my family live with their parents who throw their hands up but won't make their DC do anything around the house, and can't cope of they don't get everything they want. I think we need to stop the everyone gets a prize mentality.

But I also think - and in my case know - I over parent because of the lack of parenting and support I received. Yes, I pushed through and got a good job and looked after myself, because I knew no one was there to catch me.

But I also had horrendous teen years, where under parenting led to poor decisions & horrific experiences, and I've never fit in, because I didn't feel supported. I also married too young, looking for that support. A bit more support into adulthood would have made the difference.

I think we need a balance. It's just finding it.

I don't really understand how you think any of that was good? I mean what brilliant life lessons did you learn from hanging around all day every day of the summer? You think it's brilliant parenting to leave your 8 year old to walk to school alone every day? What did you learn from that? How did it help you get a graduate job?

DS nearly got knocked down as a teen crossing the road (his fault), I still don't fully trust him as an adult because he's so in his own head - don't worry! he's now working as a software engineer and living away from home and with the right support your family member will be successful too. Who knows they may well be ND as DS is, he wasn't diagnosed until 11 and could easily have been missed.

@ScarlettSunset your dc will fail to launch now! 😆

It might also just make sense in their household if a parent is making their own.

Exactly, we always make packed lunches for a day trip or car journey. One parent will do it. When I holiday with wider family or friends we do the same thing.

@YorkshireGoldDrinker

lol yeah right, so anyone who didn’t get pregnant straight away should be prostrating themselves in gratitude and appreciation of their offspring, and sacrifice all their own wants and needs forever more - even when the parent is 80 and the child is 40 or whatever