To think we spend too long ‘parenting’ now, and it’s turned young adults into eternal children?

You’re so right.

Parents of older teens are stunned (and insinuate I’m mean) for making my children put their own ironing away, dust and vacuum their room and the lounge and set the table - putting their dirty things into the dishwasher - ages 6 and 8.

My husband (52) works in a declining industry so the jobs are rare - he’s been made redundant twice in 8 years due to closure of business - anyway, pre covid, struggled to get a job and was competing against younger, cheaper graduates with fresh ideas and he was overlooked.
Post Covid, still rare jobs but people outbidding for him because, in their words, they’re sick of the Gen-Z attitudes to work - lazy, entitled and self serving. He got offered 3 jobs and younger, cheaper graduates were overlooked.

@TempestTost They usually are into gaming before girls though.

As I said, the dopamine hit from a woman is much more intense than video games. So it's not as if boys or young men are substituting women for video games. Instead, they're finding out that they're not wanted, then using video games (or other hobbies) simply as a way of filling spare time and seeking enjoyment.

And often porn means they don't have a heck of a lot of sexual energy left over.

The fact that porn dulls men's sex drive is a good thing. It's better to live in a society in which men have a relaxed and passive attitude towards sex. Men with a lot of sexual energy are needy, pestering, and emotional.

@RubySquid I saw that that thread and was really saddened by it. I had an accident last year requiring two operations and had limited mobility for several months. I didn’t require any personal care aside from needing someone to put a chair in the shower and stay within calling distance in case I fell.

I’m lucky to have my DH but my two (then 19 and 16) were sympathetic and helpful, made me cups of tea, the odd meal, helped me get upstairs as that was challenging, etc. DD drove me to appointments when she was back from uni.

My guess is that the poster’s DD was just frightened and upset by her Mum’s situation and has probably calmed down now. But her reaction was v. upsetting for her Mum. 😕

Or it could be cooking the dinner and tidying up rather than nursing care. If it was the thread I read the adult daughter didn't even want to drive her mum home from the hospital

Well she's not a nurse is she and it would depend completely on what her mum was able to do after the op (I didn't see the thread) if it involves busting her back rolling her over in bed and lifting her onto a commode every few hours I can see her reticence. It's not as easy as you seem to think.

They usually are into gaming before girls though. So it just never goes anywhere, they are sort of pacified. And often porn means they don't have a heck of a lot of sexual energy left over.

This is so sad. My kids are 27 & 23 they had a great education, I never expected their teachers to do more than was expected rather than to teach them. They both did their education in Welsh up to A level, both did a degree and my youngest has a masters

Sadly some people do think like this though and some of them regret it when they do have kids and realise they still haven’t “found meaning”

I agree and also legacy isn’t necessarily lineage and lineage isn’t necessarily legacy. You don’t need to have children to have a legacy.

I get that. But I'll say it again; if I was to word everything to include a whole series of caveats and side notes to satisfy every possible set of eyes, it'd turn into unreadable waffle.

I'm not here to pick fights, okay? I like to give my opinion where appropriate and help people out where I can, and the only way that'll stop is if the Mumsnet hivemind decides they want me kicked off the platform. I'm hoping that never happens and if I abide by talk guidelines, it won't.

I’m not the only person to feel that you have insinuated that, but whatever.

If I'd said "Pricelessadvice's life has no meaning because they have no children." then you can say that is in fact what I said. You've read into something and thought it was directed entirely at you and others like you.

If I was to word everything to include a whole series of caveats and side notes to satisfy every possible set of eyes, it'd turn into unreadable waffle.

When I was still raw about being unable to have children I did feel very guilty that I had broken a chain that stretched back millennia and had let my forbears down. I’m now in my 60s and realise it doesn’t matter, it’s the here and now that does. And if my remains were dug up thousands of years from now I would be considered an ancestor despite never having given birth. In a broader sense we are all ancestors just as we are all descendants.

I think if you read it again, that’s very much how it comes across. I appreciate you had fertility struggles but your wording wasn’t great. Read it from the eyes of a childfree or childless person.

It’s quite sad to think someone only thinks they have worth and value if they continue their genetic line.

Is that what I said? If you don't want children, then that's your choice. Not everyone is like you, are they? If you can find meaning in life without having children, then good for you.

I like this approach.

Agree with the workplace observation too. I have a friend who’s a police officer and does some training of the new recruits. She told me that it’s not uncommon that they ask if they can be medically excused from working nightshifts because they don’t feel they can manage them for whatever reason. Some of them don’t like blood, some don’t like shouting.

Just a total joke, really.

I think this is a very multifaceted issue.

The cost of living is high, especially with rent and food, so I do understand why people stay at their parental home longer. I believe that if young adults (I’m not calling them ‘kids’; they’re not children) are doing this, they need to be contributing to the home - token rent, saving for their own future, helping out etc.

I think a massive issue is, as the OP describes, the chronic babying behaviour of some parents on their adult kids. Making their lunch, doing their washing, picking up after them, lifts to and from wherever they want to go, buying their toiletries, paying for their phone. It’s terrible parenting and has led to many young adults not being able to do the basics like phone a company about an issue or make a simple meal.

These issues are years in the making though. It starts with mums (it’s always mum, isn’t it?) reminding their teenager to take their PE kit to school several times. Then they forget. So what does Mum do? She rushes off to take it for them. It teaches them nothing.

You see it on here all the time. “AIBU to think midnight is too late for my 19 year old to be out?”, “Daughter has fallen out with me because I tracked her on Find My when she was at the pub”, “Son (28) hasn’t called me today, should I contact police?”.

There’s zero resilience, zero critical thinking, zero initiative from many young people now. They’ve never had to deal with the consequences of their own issues. You’re a failure as a parent if you’re doing this. Your job is to prepare your child for the world ahead. To give them the skills and interpersonal ability to have a good life, contribute to society and prosper.

What's wrong with a room in a shared house? Or at least living at home and paying rent? There has to be some push towards adulthood.

Really? Blimey, how will they cope when their child is doing an active tour of duty?

I always thought it must be hard being a military parent, but I was thinking in terms of when the son or daughter is posted to a war zone, not worrying about their kit inspections.

i think (hope) that the poster is referring to how she felt. Pointless etc in the midst of an infertility journey ?
I can relate to that, cos it’s so brutal, and screws your head up so much -
but childfree people having no reason to be alive ?? No decent person would think that !

There's a big difference between running around after someone and pandering to their every want and treating them like shit

So childfree people like me have no reason to be alive?
Wow.

Do you really think those kind of things actually help though? No amount of counselling or therapy even remotely helped me. It was a combination of medication and just having to pull myself out of it and get through it on my own.

Which is very easy to say if you haven't had your sixth? (I've genuinely lost count) miscarriage in a row and slowly losing hope, isn't it? If you're not in that person's shoes, you're not going to be able to relate to the pain or the anguish. It's an unbelievably ignorant stance to take, too, but none the less a common one, so the numbness intensifies.

Ultimately if it doesn't happen, you either carry on with life and find a meaning, or, if the losses destroyed your marriage and you have no family.... God I can't bring myself to type it. No disrespect, but you can't fathom that pain and I understand why, so I can forgive.

Luckily for me, my marriage is stronger than ever and I've made it to 19 weeks with no signs of trouble, and all being well, my husband and I will have the best news of our lives come the 27th. And hopefully we can do a much better job at parenting our little one where they're here.

I think you’re right @ClaredeBear Both she and her DH worked v. hard to get where they are and they don’t want their children to have to do the same. But it’s gone too far with their eldest DD, she’s just messing about while they continue paying and doing everything.

I get it, we want our children’s lives to be easier than our own, it’s a tricky balance.