To feel a bit weird about the casual use of spoon theory

Exactly, I have mid stage Parkinson’s, I shuffle, have limited energy, get told I look well, I don’t use spoons theory, do what I can.
9 yrs in at 63, hate it.
luckily I can’t work

Oh, that's a thought - asking the question reveals who has heard of the concept, meaning that they are not afforded privacy or dignity in whether they reveal a disability - and it pressures people to reveal how they feel in front of others;

'How are you and how many spoons have you got after being with me for an hour?

Ten
Ten
Ten
Eleven
Ten
Ten
Two

'What did I do? Did I not energise you? What can you do to feel happier? I'm sad now. I want everybody to have tens.'

Whilst others mutter or say outright;

What's wrong with you to say 2?
There's always one that has to be different.
She just does it for attention

'

It seems weird to be asked to reveal something so personal? For those who are just a bit tired, it's a straightforward question, for those with an invisible disability it is a more intrusive question - how open someone with a disability wants to be varies person to person and day to day.

Your feelings about this question are valid, it is an intrusive question. Is everyone required to answer? That's not ok.

I think you could explain to your manager.

I have heard of spoon theory and it’s never made sense to me. The number of spoons I have would depend on how large or small each spoon is supposed to be? Is 1 spoon = 15min of concentration or 150mins? Is 1 spoon = walk 150m or run 1.5 miles?

(I am disabled btw)

I don't think it has to be pathologising. It can be a good way to teach people about the concept of pacing themselves, which is a good lesson, especially when we have families who expect us to do and be everything for everyone. Another way of teaching boundaries and self-management maybe? That's something everyone can do with and, if you're a visual learner, this might be a good way.

I don’t think anyone owns it. But I think it is a term that is victim to linguistic bleaching.

burnout is debilitating. It’s not feeling tired or run down after a heavy week. I see it used in this way and it frustrates me.

I work in a profession where ‘occupational’ burnout is a massive risk, and I’ve seen the devastation it can cause. I’m also married to someone with ND who has experienced burnout, with real and long lasting consequences . I’m ND and I know I’ve skirted it, but thankfully have managed to avoid it.

I'm not trying to be the ‘burnout’ police. I just think it’s an overused and misunderstood term. Much like the OP seems to feel about spoon theory.

Who do you think owns the term 'burnout'? In that example they're talking about occupational burnout?
a state of emotional and physical exhaustion caused by chronic, unmanaged workplace stress. It can manifest as feelings of detachment, demotivation, and hopelessness, and can impact a person's ability to function. The World Health Organization (WHO) recognizes burnout as an "occupational phenomenon.
There's other types, but noone should be saying 'you can't be having burnout" that's owned by me!!'

It’s stupid anyway. Spoons 🙄

I can understand why this would bother you. I do think that frequent co-opting of language used to explain disability is massively diluting the meaning and genuine understanding of the reality of disability.

similarly, it makes me feel annoyed when I hear people talking of having ‘burnout’ when they have had a rough week and need an early night.

Fair enough. That makes sense.

Can you? Can you leave a work mandadated foisted upon training session with out your job being compromised?

Why is it annoying if other people use it? Like pp say, there's no monopoly on its usage!

It’s not something I would use in front of other people about a cold but most people would acknowledge to themsleves that they feel a but shitty with a cold and therefore are going to to skip the gym and make an easier dinner. This is exactly what spoon theory is, working out how much energy you have and what to spend it on.

I don’t think the tutor is necessarily being ‘casual’ in her use and she’s not being rubbish to ask ‘how is your energy?’
but what will she do with the answers that come? People who feel rubbish and say so need to know that wouldn’t be met with a bad or wierd reaction. It would have to feel like a comfortable place to be honest. Is it that?

Interesting. I really dislike the theory as it's just not 'me' and think people would look at me if I was crackers if I started talking about spoons. But I don't think it can apply to acute illnesses. It ignores the horror of chronic illnesses and disabilities. Someone said "people don't care and you need to accept that" and I perhaps think "people don't understand and you need to accept that"

It would irritate me because it is Pathologising able, healthy, NT young adults. And encouraging unecessary self absorption.

Their job is to be there in a fit state to learn and use common sense to manage themselves.

Like normal everyday life, grip in place.

I am in danger of using the S word (❄️ ) so will leave it there.

It’s very commomly used with ND people too. Teaching all young people to aware of their energy levels and matching their comitments to how much energy they have is sensible in my opinion. It’s especially important for those who may struggle with energy level like people which chronic health conditions, ND people, carers and even those with an acute health issue need to be mindful that they have different levels of energy at different times. By using it with everyone they’re being inclusive to those who may have less energy in the long term.

Chronic illness + ADHD = I wonder how big the spoons are? Would they stack well in the dishwasher? Are they stainless steel or silver? I like those novelty spoons you get at tourist places. I wonder if Mary Poppins realised she was promoting heroine use?

From a systemic baseline, it's easier to be healthy. Of course there are individuals who have a tougher time of it - I'm not doubting that - but overall health is the greatest gift.

That's valid. I'm sorry about your limitations. That's tough

Can't even spell 'visibly,' let alone count up metaphorical spoons!

It's a difficult one having it used in a work environment. It's going on in one of mine too, and I just refuse to play at this point. Someone's already suggested I might have anti social personality disorder, as a result.😂
I've found ways of getting around the spoons and where are you feeling questions, because frankly as they're going to do nothing about what I face daily, then it's not their business!

I'm visibly physically disabled and it's obvious to those around me that I'm struggling physically, in pain and exhausted day in and day out, having to work longer hours for the same money, to manage, but it's important for my continued employment for me to say all is good when it clearly isn't, because there's no interest in making things more accessible, or the work less energy sapping, and I need the work.

I also have a hidden disability (Chrons) but have learnt that it's considered greedy for the visibly disabled to also have hidden disability. 🙄
In a work environment, the whole thing is a feels charade. (which is not to say that a lot of people with hidden disabilities aren't having a rotten time)

A lot of this seems to be based around what things look like and all our assumptions that if someone looks ok then all is good, and if someone is visibly disabled then they are already getting help and sympathy, whereas those with hidden disabilities aren't. The reality is it isn't a competition but we're being forced to compete either upwards, or downwards.

Then comes the whataboutary, and before you know it everyone in the room is being disabled by life and it's circumstances, (again, many are) so now we've established everyone's equally affected, we need to do nothing about access needs for those with visible or hidden disabilities!
Yay! We're back where we started.

The only spoons I'm prepared to talk about at work, is where's the one to stir my much needed coffee.

Throws cutlery drawer onto the bonfire and heads off to work knowing at least one person will tell me how lucky I am to be visibly disabled during wankery check in.

(edited to add missing 'visably' in last line)

I'm asking if are you applying this metaphor in your practice of interacting with people with disabilities? Are you asking them to describe to you their challenges within this twee narrative?

The spoon thing is just a very simple metaphor for talking about finite levels of energy. Of course it is going to be used 'casually' - in itself it is a completely minor aid to communication.
Calling it spoon 'theory' and inflating it into an important part of self-understanding doesn't seem very healthy. And it doesn't seem healthy or fair to object to the way in which the other teacher in the OP was using it.
For one thing, 'invisible disability' is such a broad concept that, one way or another, there are bound to be a few kids in every class who come under it. For another, why on earth should those with invisible disabilities feel they have a special claim on exhaustion? Others may have their finite energy levels challenged by excessive demands on them - supporting an alcoholic parent, looking after a disabled sibling, meeting parental demands for straight A grades, etc etc.

Is this 'spoon theory' stuff yet another example of how groups in internet spaces can accidentally build a mindset where whatever challenging personal characteristic brings them together becomes a kind of identity that has to be endlessly validated? And those with the identity take offence when the particular touchstones of validation they have developed aren't performed by the world around them?

It’s a recognised exercise used in training sometimes. How is that being foisted on people? Nobody has to take part, they can leave of their own free will.

What is annoying is when people who don’t have hidden disabilities take it outside the training and use it as a way of saying they’re tired.

What size spoon is the standard unit?

A serving spoon is considerably larger than a mustard spoon.