To think people should be able to discuss and debate how public money is used for disability and otuher benefits

Oh, I am very glad that somebody has started another thread, after the previous post was filled up with forty pages of ill-informed and hateful comments about disabled children, there definitely needed to be another thread for these delightful folks to spew their bigotry. Since MN did nothing about the recent thread which advocated removing disabled children from their parents and disabled adults from their homes, rounding them up and forcably placing them in state-run institutions, like the good old days, the likelihood of the mods doing anything at all about this thread or its predecessor is, frankly, non-existent. Still, nice to have it confirmed that the MN authorities are completely cool with really quite blatant hatred aimed at disabled people, including children, simply because of their disabilities. Depressing but nice to know where we stand and that MN are perfectly tolerant of the type of outrageously offensive ableism exhibited on the last thread, and that this site is neither a safe nor welcoming place for disabled people. Many of us reported the thread advocating the forced segregation and detention of disabled kids and were told by mods that it was no big deal, so it's not like nobody is making MN aware of what is happening.

Human nature I think.

Since becoming disabled, I have come to realise people really struggle to imagine how that might feel, how it might happen, how they would cope.

If you can start to see how it could very very easily happen (some people literally wake up paralysed, some people trip over a low step and break their necks... its not all super dramatic stuff or doing incredibly stupid stuff, or being born that way)... and start to think about how you might feel... those are very unpleasant, scary thoughts. Most people do not want to think them.

Those who really can't imagine it, will just see that someone else is getting something they don't have -extra money, fancy things, shiny new car. Simple monkey greed and jealousy there.

Those who can't and really don't like the thought (the number of times I have had someone tell me with all sincerity that they'd not cope, they'd kill themselves if they were in a wheelchair like me is unreal, truly) - push it away, deny its a thing, that people exist with the needs and discomfort and struggles they have - and so if its not a thing, its not real, its not happening... then they must all be liars and cheats claiming something they're not entitled to.

And the current media phase of highlighting real or perceived benefit fraud and portraying disabled claimants as scroungers, shirkers and cheaters... plays into both mindsets very nicely.

Some of them of course will tell you that they would never want a genuine claimant to lose their support...

But of course, they believe if someone loses their support, has their claim denied they were never a genuine claimant in the first place, they were a liar and a cheat, so thats just fine, no suffering is occurring...

So when we end up with disabled people back in institutions (which will cost the taxpayer billions of course) or begging on streets - the lucky non-disabledz can fend off any guilt or icky feels by telling themselves 'its ok, its their own fault, they aren't genuine, they could just try harder, they probably brought it on themselves, what a shame but not my problem'...

Government and media, also like to point the masses one way, so they're not looking another way, and the media like click-bait of course. If they can get thousands of click-throughs to their articles by leading people to believe that benefits claimants are getting free money for having a wonky toe or being shit at maths, or are all driving around in luxury cars, at zero cost to them in any way - of course they will!!

Why is it benefits around disability that are so often targeted? Where's the outrage at taxpayers money topping up wages because wages are too low to live on?

Benefits paying the interest on the mortgage of a house the mortgage owner lives in = bad, benefits paying the mortgage of landlords = fine apparently.

Who suggested to let people die? And what’s the answer to the running out of money problem?

Obviously, if there's no more money to pay for people to survive, people will die unless we find alternatives. So, it's imperative we find alternative means of survival. The suggestion that we let people die is really not an option.

Found, how? What’s this magic solution?

Any suggestions on how to extract taxes out of imaginary non existent taxpayers?

Lots of socialist governments have been looking for this formula for decades but haven’t found one. Maybe you have an answer.

As someone who used to work for the DWP, then as a benefits advocate, and now disabled and retired, there is one thing that needs to happen.

And that’s for commentators to realise that each disabled person understands their disability/needs (or those of their children), far better than random commentators, electing themselves into a position to decide whether others are deserving/how they should be using their disability payments. 🙄

That discussion will never be productive. 🤷‍♀️

There is no method of resolving this issue that would cost less than the current set up.

What you see as 'abuse' is often legitimate use of the money in accordance with the guidance/law. The government doesn't determine how it should be spent so why should you? It's not means tested for the same reason that other benefits are not means tested.

Any fraud or criminality can be dealt with under the current system.

What i can categorically tell you is that the costs of being disabled / parenting disabled children vastly outweigh any benefits that may be received in the overwhelming majority of cases.

It's not just that benefits are inadequate to cover real costs / loss of employment in my case, services are also inadequate. Costs would undoubtably be less if services and schools were set up to properly meet need.

On these threads people will cling on to the occasional poster who doesn't spend in the 'approved way'. Arguing whether a fridge is necessary!

I think most people look after thier own as much as they are able and many people volunteer or give to charity. Feed the poor and so on.

But you must see other pooer countries where life is very hard? Little children scavenging rubbish tips, disabled people begging on the streets etc. Short life expectancy.

I dont know why people seem gleeful about that, or want to scare disabled people online with that as a threat. I personally think there is a long way to go between where we are and that situation.

But I dont think the uk is some superior moral place. Its just had a period of wealth and relative equality.

I totally agree with you, but would add it would also be helpful if those who do (or who hope to) receive disability benefits also acknowledge that the system can be and is abused by some, and that it is fair to try to eliminate that abuse.

Am I the only person who finds the idea that high net earners will base their decision on whether to leave the country on whether a person gets disability benefits or not highly laughable?

Nations are, rightly, judged by how the most vulnerable are treated.

Relatively speaking we are a wealthy nation. Money can be saved but taking from the vulnerable is not the answer.

Surely most decent, sane people would, if there were no money left, find alternative ways to support one another and ensure the most vulnerable were equally supported. Only the seriously disturbing people on these threads would turn against their fellow human beings as you suggest.

I’m sure as I can be that certain people on this site would have been on the side of Nazi Germany during world war 2. At least the eugenics part.

Like many others, I unfortunately can’t go back in time and prevent the pregnancy that resulted in DS so a fair and humane way needs to be found to support people who will never be able to be net contributors.

That’s true, when there’s no money left. It is the survival of the fittest on that environment.

Not sure which part of ‘if there isn’t enough net contributing taxpayers to pay for other people’s benefits, then eventually there will be no benefits’ is so hard to understand for people on this thread.

Just two days ago a poster of a thread they created said “survival of the fittest”. There are truly awful people on this site when it comes to disability.

If you spell out what disability benefits pay for, to the masses, you will get an even bigger outcry, because a large proportion of them cannot imagine anything outside their own experience.

So when I say:

'I can't regulate my own temperature, I often need the heating on, or my AirCon on when other people would not need that'

They think 'well she can just put a jumper on, or open a window, thats outrageous, how dare she have aircon in her house when I can't afford aircon'..

For many people, spending over 2K on an air con unit* for the bedroom seems an outrageous luxury, for me, its the difference between being able to function, sleep well, work, and being plunged into an autonomic crash, where I spend a few weeks cycling through sweating buckets, dehydrating, shivering so hard it hurts, barely functional, and there is no fix for that, just 'ride it out', however long that might take.

I've just bought two pairs of trousers and a bra, I have little change from £200, because I am buying specialist sensory, wheelchair user adapted, easy-on clothing from specialist stores, I am not able to pop to a charity shop or hop on Vinted.

For someone who can charity shop, nip to Primark etc, thats a huge amount of money on clothing.

This is why we have a government, to make big decisions and find out the details and act on them, rather than asking the whole nation what they think - look at what happened last time we did that, we're still suffering the repercussions of that now, because so many people were given a vote on something they did not understand the implications of.

Also - what I need to function, work, live - surely, thats my business. Should I really have to spell out the ins and outs of my life and health to others to justify what I have and what I spend?

The issue is that disability is not one sized fits all demographic.

Even 2 people with the exact same diagnosis may be affected/impaired to completely different levels. Disability is individual in many ways.

I mean yes you can argue you have your "socially acceptable" costs that people think of such as mobility equipment, adapted cars, etc

Bur people don't for example consider
-Utitlites- for example if because of disability you have much much higher levels of having to do washing for example, that will cost far more in water and electric than for a non disabled person
-food. Whilst we'd love for everyone to cook from scratch, for a lot of a disabled people that isn't as simple or even possible. Things like pre prepped veggies/ready meals or hell even takeaway services like just eat/Uber can be a necessity for someone who's disabled and can't cook
-if you can't get a disability pass or you're in a rural area you may be more dependent on taxis than non disabled people
-Private therapy. The NHS simply can't keep up with demand and in most cases recommend going private-last time I looked at the cheapest hire poking at £60pw/session
-Activities/alt therapy- more so Im thinking kids might be recommend to do certain sports or social groups to help that aren't covered otherwise

Those are just a few things off ten top of my head that wouldn't work with a voucher scheme

The clear hate in these threads is revealed in the sheer numbers of commenters who, believing there's a shortage of money to maintain current UK spending levels, instead of asking what unnecessary spending we could cut, or what luxuries they can manage without, or how to share resources more equally, in order to ensure the safety and survival of the most vulnerable...go straight to taking sustinence level resources from the most vulnerable.

Thankfully, everyone I know in real life would immediately be asking what we can do to share our extras with those who need it.

I'm anorexic do you think I deserve my benefits reduced even though I require my heating on constantly. Ps your spelling is terrible

Well, I don't. But the guy who wrote the article I linked probably does. You haven't read it, have you?

Well, pensions are part of the benefits bill. The triple lock guarantees pensioners bigger annual rises than just about anyone else receiving benefits - so let's deal with that. UK benefits are already among the lowest in Europe, which is a little inconvenient for people thinking they can easily be slashed.