Autistic child attacking DD part 2

Yes, we absolutely need schools which meet a wide range of specialist needs.
Some children don't fit into the PMLD/SLD/ASD/PD/SEMH boxes, some have combinations of these, some don't fit the 'typical' presentation for their identified need. No idea where funding comes for this though.

Yes, absolutely agree with you, many of the families I work with are inspirational in their knowledge, skill, patience and perseverance within a clunky system.

That's good to hear.

The last campus where I worked did have a special school where there were some older children who could communicate verbally, but the one that I mentioned is definitely only taking non-verbal children. (It's the same LA.) Thinking about it, all the younger children in the last campus were non-verbal only - it took children from age 4 to 16.

The LA has definitely cut back on places in special schools. We used to have a larger than usual number of children on the spectrum in my last school. (Mainstream.)

This was because our secondary school was smaller than most in the region and parents would choose to send their children to us. Most did well, but resourcing was always a problem.

We had one pupil had separate accommodation for exam purposes but was expected to sit in ordinary classes otherwise. She was high-functioning and didn't have her own TA. She was given a time-out card to let her go the support base, but I'd often find myself getting a call to go look for her in the building.

Usually, she'd have become overwhelmed and would have sought refuge in one of the toilet blocks.

In the 18 yrs that I taught at the school, I can only think of one autistic pupil who had his own TA. He did cope in mainstream classes, though we adapted the work as best as we could. Sensory issues were a problem for him.

Our main difficulty was the region trying to force schools (and families) to do more and more with less money.

We had one pupil who was high-functioning and violent towards staff. (Male staff had to remove their ties when around him - he'd use them to throttle them.) In the end, it was agreed that he could move to another mainstream school which had sufficient staffing to allow him to work in the support base all day.

Oh God the whole mum thing ,every meeting I go to I'm mum, what goes mum think etc
Agree why can't they just ask what you would like to be addressed as?

All sadly true. 'Of course mum worries' they say, and I so hate being 'mum' rather than having a name, don't you? How much effort does it take to say 'what should I call you?' But that's a whole different hobby horse!

We were actually told that teachers and not paediatricians are the experts of children with SEND.

The thing I hate is the buck passing. You can have a child with very early delays from the age of a few months but parents get fobbed off, told their child will be absolutely fine in mainstream with no support and of course they don't need an EHCP, who on earth mentioned that? Notification of SEN assessments can be very imaginative in their interpretation of scores - severe s&l delays and motor skills are suddenly average and average cognitive scores can get interpreted as a mild cognitive delay.

Then of course schools are fed up with this. And when the LA do eventually fund something they say it's the school's fault. It's such a mess.

It can take years to get any tutoring at all in some LAs.

I'm not disputing what you say but that's not the case in my sons special school, it's a school for children with severe and profound learning disabilities some of the children are very verbal, some have limited speech and some like my son are completely non verbal.

That's what happened when we were waiting for my son's EHCP to come through. The LA decided that 1 hour of home tutoring a day was a good alternative.

Thanks for answering. My LA just says there aren't places for them and they end up with a tutor for a few hours a week. Would you agree that it's got to start by building the right schools and training staff? And accepting that not every teacher is a teacher of SEN. It takes a special mindset and dedication because it's a bit like lion taming imho. I'll also stick my neck out and say that parents of SEND children are overwhelmingly brilliant because they're sailing into unknown waters and learning new skills and fighting every step of the way.

This is the trouble we're having trying to get my son into our preferred specialist.

His primary need is social, communication and interaction, he has a significant, significant spech delay, he's not conversant, there's no back and forth, but he can now say a lot of words, and can say really long sentences, even though most of it is just echolalia and idiosyncratic speech.

He does have a really good understanding of words, but his communication deficits have kept him in Reception, for 3 years. The school have said that's a new record for them, and they've been under pressure from the LA to move him into a Y1 class where he just isn't able to cope, meanwhile, we wait for a specialist to be named.

Consultations have come back from mainstreams with hubs saying his needs are far too great for them to meet, one full specialist provision for SCI need have said that they don't have the resources he would need and benefit from as they're such a small school, and the much larger, much better, well established SCI specialist school have changed their policy this year to only accepting non verbal students and they've decided that my son is verbal because he can formulate words even if he isn't using them in a way that makes sense to anybody that doesn't have an intimate knowledge of him.

Nobody out of our house would know what he's asking for when he says pinkings, or that when he asks are you hungry, he's actually saying that he is hungry, or that you could ask him any yes/no question and he won't actually know what it is you're asking, but he'll know that it needs either a yes or a no, which means he can't safely consent to anything. He can't always tell the difference between can I wipe your bum please and do you want pasta for dinner, he'd just know that he's expected to spit out yes or no, and that answer could change if the same question is asked seconds apart.

So he's stuck in mainstream until a specialist can be named. It's infuriating.

That is true in my area too. There seems to be many more children with very complex needs than 10/15 years ago. So now those with fairly complex needs are pushed into mainstream. I'm not sure why this is, it's not due to greater diagnosis as these children would never have been 'missed'. We used to have a school for children with complex learning and physical needs. And a school for children with predominantly physical/medical/sensory needs but a learning ability broadly within normal range - which is what many children need now but end up in mainstream as both schools are now needed for very complex children and are full with wait lists despite both also doubling intake. Places at these schools cost between 50 and 70k. A child can be put into mainstream with a 1 to 1 for about 25k, so it's a cheaper option, but usually not better

The specialist school in the campus where I worked many years ago will now only accept children who are non-verbal. Other children who would benefit from a specialist setting are forced into mainstream.

Absolutely this. And the demanding curriculum doesn't help either. What happened to free play on a Thursday afternoon or just going out for a walk. Kids are learning stuff aged 10 that was taught at aged 12 years ago. And all the homework in primary and the organisational demands. Children can't keep up with it all. And why do they need to learn all this grammar when they're 7?

inclusion in schools is not a bad thing but it is basically impossible without a total rethink of school facilities, buildings, staffing levels, curriculum, progression and assessment. Schools are inherently stressful environments for loads of kids because schools and schooling are designed for hypothetical pupils without much room to adapt the design for the pupils you actually have. All the SEND support is effectively tinkering round the edges rather than creating an actually inclusive learning environment where kids can thrive.

My high achieving, autistic boy is in mainstream. Class of 32, multiple competing SEN in his class. Excellent class teacher and TA but:

Bobby has sensory issues and can’t focus if people are noisy and fidgeting. He wears headphones when he can but he needs to hear the teacher
David thinks out loud and talks constantly because that’s how he processes his thoughts. He can’t show his attainment easily on paper but he’s bright and easily frustrated. When he’s frustrated he throws things and shouts
Mary has sensory processing needs and fidgets constantly.
Jane constantly taps her pen on the table as a stimming action and gets really upset if she can’t
Oliver has very strong adherence to rules and gets very upset when people speak out of turn, are unkind or speak without putting their hand up
James has limited impulse control and speaks without putting his hand up and often jumps up and shouts his answer. He has no sense of personal space. He can’t cope with being wrong
Adam is trying to get in with the cool kids by being the class clown. He struggles with school work and can’t focus so messes about. He is often in trouble. He is mean to kids who do well at school work.
Laura is struggling with trauma after her mum died due to domestic violence. School is her safe place and loud noises terrify.

All trapped in a room together. Schools and schooling aren’t fit for purpose

The LA should be explaining that there are special schools that cater for more academic children. And finding a suitable one for the child. Special school does not mean the children are incapable to achieve GCSEs/equivalent. But of course, it's no surprise the LA shirks their duty yet again if it means they don't have to pay for it. Fuck the child, their families and their classmates hey

It's very area dependant too. In my area, we have 3 local special schools and all require a diagnosis of global developmental delay which obviously doesn't apply to all children with SEND who may not be able to cope in mainstream.

My son is in mainstream but with significant support that took months to put in place and fighting with the LA. He doesn't have GDD and wouldn't have any chance at all of any of the local special schools so I feel incredibly grateful that the support he has in place works for him because I dread to think what the alternative would've been and how long I would've had to fight for it.

The child at our school was academically competent and, in his parents opinion, would have had his education and potential compromised if he was moved to a ‘special school’. I think they were probably right. But I do also truely think he was capable of very very badly harming others. Killing someone, even.

This.
I’ve met many parents of SEND children. All of those with extremely challenging children want them in special schools. Many of them have had to really fight for it.

You see, I don't know anyone who wants their child with significant SEND in mainstream schools as inclusion is very rare. It's been a disaster for a very long time. It was a silly ideological idea (David Blunkett?) and closure of loads of specialist provision has been a disaster. Specialist schools are often very picky which children they'll take, that was a real eye opener actually.

So many children who would've coped in mainstream many years ago just can't manage nowadays.

That sounds about right to me. I don't think the school has any other option right now, though it would've been more helpful if it was actually stopping him from hurting other children.

It is this that makes me so angry …

I think most people assume safeguarding is the priority until they have a personal experience of the utter insanity of how ‘inclusion’ is interpreted in some educational settings. Because safeguarding most definitely is not. In reality, the bit never said out loud is we are expected to silently tolerate our children being harmed and hurt because of another’s needs.

In our school, an autistic boy with ADHD and ODD diagnoses, had a devastating impact. A teacher had her nose broken when he whacked her with a chair; another was violently assaulted by him in public. It disrupted education in one class for over a year. Children were attacked, and those who weren’t attacked were terrified. Kids started to refuse to come to school.

There is a peculiar insanity that says ‘inclusion’ is so critical that conditions which cause teachers to leave their jobs, other children to become too scared to go to school, education to be disrupted must all be tolerated. I would like those in charge of this insanity to be charged with exposing children to harm, and staff to unsafe working conditions.

Also insane that inclusion doesn’t extend to victims - most affected include other autistic kids who can’t recognise another’s meltdown about to occur and get to safety, kids with dyslexia etc who need extra help in class, kids who are triggered by violence. The spillover consequences are immense.

About 37% of the enrolment are kids with additional needs. The vast majority of these are also victims of a tiny number among them who have extreme needs. But let’s pretend this is exclusively neurotypical vs neurodiverse.

God help you if you speak up for all the many other children, and the staff - this means you are anti-inclusion and intolerant of disabilities.

Unless there is a serious reality check about the tiny number of children who should not be included in mainstream schooling without extensive expensive support because of their damaging traumatising behaviour, there will be a public backlash against inclusion which will extend to ALL kids with additional needs, and that is fucking unfair.

The inconvenient fact is no right-minded parent will EVER offer their child’s mental health, physical health, and education so that another vulnerable child can practice on them while they learn how to function in society. Those who have an extreme belief in inclusion might deeply wish parents would sacrifice their kids in the name of this ideal, but it won’t happen. Not even if you call us names and shriek about how cruel and unkind we are about disabilities. Pause for a moment, and just think about what you’re asking. And if you still think that’s a reasonable request, fuck off.

But we are led by donkeys who are supported by people too blinded by ill thought-out populist unicorn policies to see the wood for the trees. Just wait until Farage gets a whiff of this. It’s so bloody predictable it makes me want to cry.

In that case, the simpler explanation of an inept SLT fits.

No I definitely don't think the right help is available when it's needed. There are lots of specialists, and schools trying their absolute hardest to support children, but the system is overwhelmed, and there is no more money available.

Pre entry testing would be a huge undertaking, and would only work if suitable school options were then available - that, and the ethos of 'inclusion' (even when not appropriate) are the biggest issues. Together with (and i know this will be controversial) parental choice - As we have an ARP many children with SEN but without an EHCP applied thinking they would get into the ARP, despite being told needed an EHCP to attend the ARP. The school told the LA they couldn't meet the need of many children with reception places, but as there was nowhere else for them to go, they had to take them.

"Im angry at the fact that he could possibly link 'if I bully and pick on and attack these kids, they will leave.' What sort of a message does that send to a violent boy?"

I thinking you putting the thoughts of someone much older onto a 4 year old.

As i understand it, he doesn't have a funded 1 to 1, the class TA has been allocated as his 1 to 1 as a temporary stop gap - which then takes away support from the class as a whole.

It is variable I agree

Exactly. Can't believe that people have written off a 4 year old.