Page 3 | Autistic child attacking DD part 2

HollandAndCooper · 2025-10-15T08:14:09+00:00

Original thread here: [[https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5420774-autistic-child-attacking-dd?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=app_share https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5420774-autistic-child-attacking-dd?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=app_share]] Hi Everyone, me back again looking for advice, perhaps some last minute advice as I have a meeting scheduled with the head teacher this morning. DD aged 4 has been very unwell and spent a week off school. She is really going through it at the moment. She returned to school yesterday after her time off, and I'd hoped that the boy in question would've got bored and moved on. I did have a meeting booked last week but couldn't go due to DD being poorly. well.. it turns out he hasn't got bored and moved on. It's a very small school with 20-25 per class, one class per year from reception to year 2. the event that happened yesterday, by DDs account. it was play time and DD was playing with a couple other girls in the play ground. Child in question was calling DD names like 'baby' and 'you need nappies' and announced he was going to the toilet. he came back out and proceeded to have faeces on his finger to which he wiped on her cardigan. a staff member took her to the quiet room, swapped her cardigan for one in lost property and the cardigan was handed to me in a bag on pick up. With still an evident stain on it. i have a meeting this morning. I have a copy of the safe guarding policy, anti bullying policy. I just need some wise words from MN now with what I need to say but I'm going down the route of failing to keep my child safe, and this is a huge safeguarding issue, not to mention a biohazard issue. please be kind, I'm a single parent doing my best, and she won't be returning until she is safe. so far the child has: kicked, punched, pinched, clouted her on the head with a metal water bottle, name called and taunted. And now this. she will not be going back to the school until this is sorted and there are proper sanctions in place. I am so angry and utterly heartbroken for her. She has been so poorly last week and in and out of hospital and I cannot see her broken like this anymore. i appreciate the old thread is 1000 posts but there's more information on there if needed. My AIBU is I guess to want this child excluded and put as far away from DD as possible. But I know it's not that simple. I'm at a total loss and they are failing to safe guard my child. She will not be returning until she can be safe, I'm also looking at other provisions for her now. thanks in advance.

flawlessflipper · 19/10/2025 15:51

Kirbert2 · 19/10/2025 12:41

In my experience, home tuition was a poor alternative to full time education. The LA deemed that 1 hour a day was appropriate until I fought against it along with my son's school.

It was temporary in my son's case as we were waiting for his EHCP but it was far from good enough.

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LAs like to perpetuate the myth that it is acceptable for s19 provision to only be a few hours a week. It saves them money. The law actually mandates a full-time education, except where that is not appropriate for the child, and a few hours a week does not fulfil that duty. The LGO is also clear 5 hrs a week isn’t sufficient. LAs ignore and hope parents don’t know the law, don’t know how to challenge the LA’s decision, feel they are unable to take it further…

flawlessflipper · 19/10/2025 15:50

Belle36 · 19/10/2025 12:38

Some children get EOTAS packages now, home tuition and other things, can that be a better option for children who need quite specialist provision?

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EOTAS/EOTIS via EHCPs are only legally possible if it is inappropriate for provision to be made in a school/college. LAs dislike it. Most parents have to appeal, particularly for a comprehensive package. Done correctly, it isn’t the easy or cheap option. It is every bit as expensive as independent SS. Sometimes more. Large parts of society also dislike it because they are bespoke packages including types of provision they don't think DC should have.

I have 2 DC with EOTAS/EOTIS packages. It isn’t the easy the option.

Thekidsarefightingagain · 19/10/2025 15:16

Avantiagain · 19/10/2025 14:33

"and at that stage he is quite unlikely to unless he has very profound disabilities"

That is incorrect. Children can be diagnosed before school age without being profoundly autistic.

They sometimes avoid diagnosing ASD even when it's obvious from a very early age. Cynical me thinks that's due to resources. It's why many parents get told their obviously autistic child has a cognitive delay when they don't and language and play skills in the normal range when this is severely delayed. Then child can't cope with no support in mainstream, trauma, out of school, fight for EHCP, cost of independent reports to find out what is actually going on, tactical games, refusal to assess, no education for ages, appeal, more tactics from LA, specialist school placement or EOTAS. Which costs LAs a lot of money.

Kirbert2 · 19/10/2025 14:56

shampop · 19/10/2025 14:52

The title is quite literally ‘autistic child’? I didn’t realise he was only ‘maybe’ autistic, in which case the title needs to be changed?
I have not seen any comments that misogynistic or claiming that the girl should just put up with it? So I’m guessing they have been deleted too.

His mum has said he's autistic to OP. Of course, there's no way of knowing if he has a formal diagnosis but even if he doesn't, no diagnosis doesn't make an autistic chid any less autistic.

shampop · 19/10/2025 14:52

The title is quite literally ‘autistic child’? I didn’t realise he was only ‘maybe’ autistic, in which case the title needs to be changed?
I have not seen any comments that misogynistic or claiming that the girl should just put up with it? So I’m guessing they have been deleted too.

Avantiagain · 19/10/2025 14:33

"and at that stage he is quite unlikely to unless he has very profound disabilities"

That is incorrect. Children can be diagnosed before school age without being profoundly autistic.

Thekidsarefightingagain · 19/10/2025 14:23

Keepingthingsinteresting · 19/10/2025 14:17

@HopeMumsnet I would point out that (I) we have no no evidence that this child has a diagnosis, and at that stage he is quite unlikely to unless he has very profound disabilities, which is not in line with the story from the OP and (II) are you going to go through and delete all the misogynistic comments that suggest this little girl should just deal with it or excuse the bullying and physical assault? No, didn’t think so, massive, massive double standards!

Edited

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It's not a way to talk about a 4 year old though. He's only a little boy.

Keepingthingsinteresting · 19/10/2025 14:17

HopeMumsnet · 16/10/2025 07:28

Hi all,
Yes, just to pick up on this, we have made quite a few deletions on this thread (reported by a fair few MNers) because we felt that the descriptions of the child in question crossed the line into ableism and were also tbh just a bit grim. This is a site for peer support and we very much understand the upset but there are limits to what is a reasonable and compassionate way to talk about children, especially those with special needs, so we would ask you to bear that in mind from now on.

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@HopeMumsnet I would point out that (I) we have no no evidence that this child has a diagnosis, and at that stage he is quite unlikely to unless he has very profound disabilities, which is not in line with the story from the OP and (II) are you going to go through and delete all the misogynistic comments that suggest this little girl should just deal with it or excuse the bullying and physical assault? No, didn’t think so, massive, massive double standards!

Belle36 · 19/10/2025 14:16

Thekidsarefightingagain · 19/10/2025 14:07

EOTAS often costs a fortune as do expensive placements. If LAs put provision in place in the first place they wouldn't be forking out £100k+ packages. Which means no money for early intervention and support. Which in turn leads to expensive packages.The wrong provision often leads to expensive placements in residential school
or worse residential care (£300k ish?). And many people aren't able to navigate legal processes by themselves unless they can afford solicitors.

As a parent you get told that your child can't get support because the greedy middle class parents with their solicitors are taking the money away from children who need support. And of course their children don't really need an EHCP. And if you do then fight for support you are put in the greedy neurotic mum bracket (as it's always the mum). It's all completely bonkers.

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I'm so sorry, it sounds like such a nightmare dealing with LEAs. 💐

Thekidsarefightingagain · 19/10/2025 14:14

Jimmyneutronsforehead · 19/10/2025 12:27

100% I have developed CFS since starting the battle to get my son what he needs and I'm now also being assessed for dysautonomic conditions when repeated cortisol tests show extremely elevated levels of cortisol, my joints are playing up, and I get heart palpitations randomly throughout the day that make me feel like I'm having a heart attack.

It's a cruel and punitive system.

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Sorry to hear that. It seems that loads of parents get fibromyalgia and CFS, C PTSD, heart issues because of institutional trauma. Nobody tells you when you go into this that you could get really ill.

ShesNeverSeenAShadeOfGray · 19/10/2025 14:11

The inconvenient fact is no right-minded parent will EVER offer their child’s mental health, physical health, and education so that another vulnerable child can practice on them while they learn how to function in society. Those who have an extreme belief in inclusion might deeply wish parents would sacrifice their kids in the name of this ideal, but it won’t happen. Not even if you call us names and shriek about how cruel and unkind we are about disabilities. Pause for a moment, and just think about what you’re asking. And if you still think that’s a reasonable request, fuck off.

And as a parent, I also agree with this.

I had to move one of my children for similar reasons to the OP's over 10 years ago: a bullying child was targeting mine. An entitled bully with likely ADHD who the school couldn't/wouldn't support appropriately and deal with their behaviour and a set of parents who thought he could do no wrong. The bullying child who was allowed to carry on with his shitty behaviour ... and went on to be charged with a violent crime against a teenage girl when he hit his teenage years. No surprise in this house.

Thekidsarefightingagain · 19/10/2025 14:07

Belle36 · 19/10/2025 12:38

Some children get EOTAS packages now, home tuition and other things, can that be a better option for children who need quite specialist provision?

Show quote history

EOTAS often costs a fortune as do expensive placements. If LAs put provision in place in the first place they wouldn't be forking out £100k+ packages. Which means no money for early intervention and support. Which in turn leads to expensive packages.The wrong provision often leads to expensive placements in residential school
or worse residential care (£300k ish?). And many people aren't able to navigate legal processes by themselves unless they can afford solicitors.

As a parent you get told that your child can't get support because the greedy middle class parents with their solicitors are taking the money away from children who need support. And of course their children don't really need an EHCP. And if you do then fight for support you are put in the greedy neurotic mum bracket (as it's always the mum). It's all completely bonkers.

ShesNeverSeenAShadeOfGray · 19/10/2025 14:03

CarrotVan · 17/10/2025 20:16

inclusion in schools is not a bad thing but it is basically impossible without a total rethink of school facilities, buildings, staffing levels, curriculum, progression and assessment. Schools are inherently stressful environments for loads of kids because schools and schooling are designed for hypothetical pupils without much room to adapt the design for the pupils you actually have. All the SEND support is effectively tinkering round the edges rather than creating an actually inclusive learning environment where kids can thrive.

My high achieving, autistic boy is in mainstream. Class of 32, multiple competing SEN in his class. Excellent class teacher and TA but:

Bobby has sensory issues and can’t focus if people are noisy and fidgeting. He wears headphones when he can but he needs to hear the teacher
David thinks out loud and talks constantly because that’s how he processes his thoughts. He can’t show his attainment easily on paper but he’s bright and easily frustrated. When he’s frustrated he throws things and shouts
Mary has sensory processing needs and fidgets constantly.
Jane constantly taps her pen on the table as a stimming action and gets really upset if she can’t
Oliver has very strong adherence to rules and gets very upset when people speak out of turn, are unkind or speak without putting their hand up
James has limited impulse control and speaks without putting his hand up and often jumps up and shouts his answer. He has no sense of personal space. He can’t cope with being wrong
Adam is trying to get in with the cool kids by being the class clown. He struggles with school work and can’t focus so messes about. He is often in trouble. He is mean to kids who do well at school work.
Laura is struggling with trauma after her mum died due to domestic violence. School is her safe place and loud noises terrify.

All trapped in a room together. Schools and schooling aren’t fit for purpose

Honest to god, most of our primary classes fit this description. Except that our numbers of children with varying issues are actually higher. It's almost unbelievable except this is where we are. And the backgrounds and trauma some of them have experienced would make most people cry.

Belle36 · 19/10/2025 12:58

Kirbert2 · 19/10/2025 12:56

Much better thanks. He has his EHCP and 2:1 TA support and is very happy at school.

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That's great 😊

Kirbert2 · 19/10/2025 12:56

Belle36 · 19/10/2025 12:55

I'm so sorry to hear that 💐 I hope things are better for him now?

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Much better thanks. He has his EHCP and 2:1 TA support and is very happy at school.

Belle36 · 19/10/2025 12:55

Kirbert2 · 19/10/2025 12:53

It's also very isolating which may be necessary for some children or wanted due to their particular circumstances but my son was miserable and hated every minute of it.

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I'm so sorry to hear that 💐 I hope things are better for him now?

Kirbert2 · 19/10/2025 12:53

Belle36 · 19/10/2025 12:46

1 hour a day is appalling! I know 1-1 tuition is more intensive, but I would think you'd need at least 3-4 hours a day for it to be equivalent to full time schooling.

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It's also very isolating which may be necessary for some children or wanted due to their particular circumstances but my son was miserable and hated every minute of it.

Belle36 · 19/10/2025 12:46

Kirbert2 · 19/10/2025 12:41

In my experience, home tuition was a poor alternative to full time education. The LA deemed that 1 hour a day was appropriate until I fought against it along with my son's school.

It was temporary in my son's case as we were waiting for his EHCP but it was far from good enough.

Show quote history

1 hour a day is appalling! I know 1-1 tuition is more intensive, but I would think you'd need at least 3-4 hours a day for it to be equivalent to full time schooling.

Kirbert2 · 19/10/2025 12:41

Belle36 · 19/10/2025 12:38

Some children get EOTAS packages now, home tuition and other things, can that be a better option for children who need quite specialist provision?

Show quote history

In my experience, home tuition was a poor alternative to full time education. The LA deemed that 1 hour a day was appropriate until I fought against it along with my son's school.

It was temporary in my son's case as we were waiting for his EHCP but it was far from good enough.

Belle36 · 19/10/2025 12:38

Bigpinksweater · 19/10/2025 12:34

But SEN schools work on economies of scale and expecting micro schools which cater for such an array of (tbh poorly understood) conditions to be within a 10 mile radius of every home is unrealistic. I know it sounds ‘mean’ but there has to be some acknowledgment of this surely?

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Some children get EOTAS packages now, home tuition and other things, can that be a better option for children who need quite specialist provision?

Bigpinksweater · 19/10/2025 12:34

Bushmillsbabe · 18/10/2025 19:30

Yes, we absolutely need schools which meet a wide range of specialist needs.
Some children don't fit into the PMLD/SLD/ASD/PD/SEMH boxes, some have combinations of these, some don't fit the 'typical' presentation for their identified need. No idea where funding comes for this though.

Yes, absolutely agree with you, many of the families I work with are inspirational in their knowledge, skill, patience and perseverance within a clunky system.

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But SEN schools work on economies of scale and expecting micro schools which cater for such an array of (tbh poorly understood) conditions to be within a 10 mile radius of every home is unrealistic. I know it sounds ‘mean’ but there has to be some acknowledgment of this surely?

Jimmyneutronsforehead · 19/10/2025 12:27

Thekidsarefightingagain · 19/10/2025 09:59

Yes, so many parents are getting serious health conditions from the fighting and gaslighting that they face. Parents asking for social care support often find themselves subject to scrutiny and investigation instead and everything is interpreted through a safeguarding rather than disability lens. Appeal after appeal but provision is only partially delivered. Every part of the system is overwhelmed.

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100% I have developed CFS since starting the battle to get my son what he needs and I'm now also being assessed for dysautonomic conditions when repeated cortisol tests show extremely elevated levels of cortisol, my joints are playing up, and I get heart palpitations randomly throughout the day that make me feel like I'm having a heart attack.

It's a cruel and punitive system.

Thekidsarefightingagain · 19/10/2025 09:59

Bushmillsbabe · 19/10/2025 09:18

As one of those staff who fight every day to try to get the children on my caseload what they need, despite complaints being made to my manager by other services that I am 'too pushy' I agree. At the end of the day, I get to go home to my children who have it so much easier than most of the children I work with, so I count myself very privileged.

Yes, there are lots of professionals who go above and beyond for the children they work with, working hundreds of unpaid hours and trying to break down barriers for them and their families. Who keep going in the midst of an overwhelmed system at significant personal cost to their own families, lives and mental health.

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Yes, so many parents are getting serious health conditions from the fighting and gaslighting that they face. Parents asking for social care support often find themselves subject to scrutiny and investigation instead and everything is interpreted through a safeguarding rather than disability lens. Appeal after appeal but provision is only partially delivered. Every part of the system is overwhelmed.

Bushmillsbabe · 19/10/2025 09:18

Easytoconfuse · 19/10/2025 05:53

May I just say that so are some of the staff who fight the odds? I've sat and sobbed when some of them moved on, retired, and sadly burnt out and had to change careers. I won't mention what I've done when others have left. It wouldn't be nice!

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As one of those staff who fight every day to try to get the children on my caseload what they need, despite complaints being made to my manager by other services that I am 'too pushy' I agree. At the end of the day, I get to go home to my children who have it so much easier than most of the children I work with, so I count myself very privileged.

Yes, there are lots of professionals who go above and beyond for the children they work with, working hundreds of unpaid hours and trying to break down barriers for them and their families. Who keep going in the midst of an overwhelmed system at significant personal cost to their own families, lives and mental health.

Easytoconfuse · 19/10/2025 05:53

Bushmillsbabe · 18/10/2025 19:30

Yes, we absolutely need schools which meet a wide range of specialist needs.
Some children don't fit into the PMLD/SLD/ASD/PD/SEMH boxes, some have combinations of these, some don't fit the 'typical' presentation for their identified need. No idea where funding comes for this though.

Yes, absolutely agree with you, many of the families I work with are inspirational in their knowledge, skill, patience and perseverance within a clunky system.

Show quote history

May I just say that so are some of the staff who fight the odds? I've sat and sobbed when some of them moved on, retired, and sadly burnt out and had to change careers. I won't mention what I've done when others have left. It wouldn't be nice!