Autistic child attacking DD part 2

There was recently a thread by a TA that had been clubbed on the back of the head with a log by an autistic child. SEN parents were lining up to victim blame her - 'why did you have your back to the child?', 'why were you sat lower than the child?", etc.

I commented that any child that you can't turn your back on, or be at a lower level than, shouldn't be around other children because it's completely unreasonable to expect other children to manage that level of danger.

This suggestion of offloading the safety of the OP's child into another child is ludicrous. How can the school possibly think it's a good idea? What if the bodyguard child flips out after having shit smeared on them and hurts the boy? It's a disaster waiting to happen.

Some autistic children are/can be aggressive. Why assume the father is aggressive? It may have nothing to do with examples at home but entirely from the child's condition. Which is why we used to have special schools.

Exactly, no responsibility from the violent child, their parent, school.. let's foist the responsibility onto another child...

I haven't read the other thread or all of this one but for anyone criticising OP try to put yourself in her shoes. I actually think she's been remarkably restrained and calm about the whole thing. If this was happening to my daughter i might not be so calm.

OP - be proud that you've stood up for your daughter and that you're protecting her by moving her to a different school.

So she gets to be kicked, bitten, stabbed with a pencil whilst shielding a four year old with her body? Or feels guilty that she took her eye off the little one and she was pushed off the step and broke her leg? That she's been put into an adult role when she's barely made the age of criminal responsibility and will not have been told that she's going to be the physical obstacle the other child will try and go through to get to their target/fixation?

And whilst we're at it, why more girls than boys responsible for caring for who they see as babies?

This is woefully ignorant.

Special school is often suggested for difficult behaviour because difficult behaviour is often exasperated by unsuitable environments. If a suitable school is provided, the behaviours drastically decrease.

There's also smaller classes, almost always less than 10 (although even that has been increased in recent years. Used to be around 6 per class).
And more adults. A lot more adults. Primary mainstream could be 1 adult for 34 children in KS2. Specialist could be 5 adults for 10 children.

It leads to the bullied child's nervous system defaulting into the freeze response. Essentially making them a victim in other situations for life.

You'll see the outcome of this on here, the ones who want to hush hush victims and protect bullies.

Agreed, @HollandAndCooper .

I'm neurodivergent myself.* When I was a school pupil, I just wanted to be left in peace to get on with my work.

As I said in a pp, one of my bullies got in touch with me - ostensibly to apologise. (It became clear that she just wanted to make herself feel better. Apparently, the 'seeking forgiveness' was a TikTok fad at one point.)

The result for me - at the grand old age of 65 - was that I nearly missed my school reunion and began to obsess as to whether I should have gone ahead with the plastic surgery that I was offered at the age of 19.

Part of the bullying involved constant name-calling and mocking of my features to the extent that my mother booked a GP appointment for me while I was still at school. I was eventually offered surgery by a maxillofacial specialist, but - fortunately - had to wait two years to allow for any further growth.

By the time I was 21, I had my first serious boyfriend and my confidence had grown enough to allow me to turn down the procedure. However, being contacted by the bully brought back all the angst.

In your place, I would absolutely move my daughter.

*I have a formal diagnosis of OCD. Autism and ADHD is suspected, but there seems no point in seeking a formal diagnosis at my age.

Just curious, but why wouldn't you want your DD being used as a deterrent to bullies if she was in year 6 and paired with a younger child? That's quite common in schools and both the younger and older children benefit from it. Also, tbh, it sounds like the school have listened and responded by now ensuring that he is accompanied by a TA. It's pretty common for there to be children with SENs in all schools so you may find the same issues with a different school. The boy probably can't help it and it's hard to say how much the parents are to blame. You could recognise the need for your daughter to be safe whilst also acknowledging that the mother might be doing as much as she can under the circumstances, even if she's parenting a different child with different needs to yours in a different way. If the head described the actions of a 4 year old with SEN as bullying, then I would have concerns.

Ex teacher
current SEN parent.

move her.

i’m glad you’ve come to this decision.

i have seen a few times autistic individuals focus on one or two particular other children/students and those children can bear the brunt of violence and problematic behaviour.

this is different from situations where the child is simply dysregulated.

in one situation the autistic child wanted to “marry” them and punished them with violence etc if they spoke to other children.

he was put on 1:1 supervision at all times. It was very difficult for the girl in question.

if the child is focusing on her then you really should move her. He obviously needs support, but these situations are very, very hard to handle from a school point of view and if both children are in the same classroom you have to be constantly alert for any movement/violence which can be very unexpected.

my thoughts are with you and your child and I also hope the boy gets the help he so clearly needs.

Aw your poor daughter my heart breaks for her bless her.
this little boy is clearly not being supervised or if he is it’s not the right setting for him.

I have 3 children all of whom are autistic. My youngest is 3 (non verbal, but over the last couple of weeks he’s attempting to say words yay!!) and when he first started nursery he was aggressive on a few occasions when children were upset as he hated the noise of them crying- I felt awful when his key worker told me my other 2 weren’t like this at all. He’s now settled thank goodness (they still supervise him at all times) and now is so affectionate, kind and comforting he’s like a different child now he’s got the best support.

id never use my children having SEN as an excuse for violence… its a reason yes but not an excuse. I’d be mortified if I was this little boys mum and so apologetic to you and your daughter I hope she’s that sort of parent.

And @WearyAuldWumman perfectly illustrates the point!!!

Mind you, you'd be surprised how quickly an LA can move when there's a crisis.

Our school was repeatedly told that there was no money available for anything. One day, a particularly 'challenging' 15 yr old punched one of my colleagues in front of several hundred witnesses. The kid's parents tried to have the teacher charged...The evil brute had put out his hand to block a second punch. When the police informed the parents that there was no case to answer, they complained to the LA and then went to the press.

Miraculously, money was found to pay for an assistant for that one pupil. (His 'difficulties' were not associated with a learning disability.)

They definitely do, and then shriek and claim victim hood when anything is suggested that the behaviour isn't acceptable.

Then the parent gets fined and prosecuted for not sending the child to school.
This happened to me after a long fight finally got my child in a specialist school she's started yr 2 after been on a reduced timetable for 2 years whilst we fought for her to have a education.
The ignorance on this thread regarding SEN is appalling ,it's a massive spectrum some children will be aggressive some won't some will respond to boundaries and discipline some won't .
I have one SEN child in mainstream who is good as gold causes no problems but is extremely vulnerable,I have another who is extremely similar to the little boy OP describes ,these are little human beings and little children NOT monsters or problems to be shut away from polite society.

Nobody is insinuating or saying it would be okay if he was smearing poo on a child with a learning disability in a special school 🤦‍♀️

I do think this is being handled appallingly, but I find it interesting that a lot of people think the answer is a special school. It's as if they think that it would be ok if this child was smearing poo on a child with a learning disability...the issue here is one of adequate supervision, whether in mainstream or special school, an alternative provision or elsewhere.

There's a difference between excluding a child from education and finding a more appropriate educational setting for a child.

There's also the need (in this case) to protect the physical and mental health of a child who has been both physically and verbally abused.

Unfortunately, it's quite common these days for children to be forced to share an educational environment with someone who has hurt them. Teachers are taught that all behaviour is communication and that challenging behaviour is a trauma response; therefore schools normally bend over backwards to accommodate the needs of pupils exhibiting challenging behaviour. This does not mean that other children should be expected to suffer because of the behaviour of others.

A child with SEN can be suspended if school can show they have done everything they can to meet need. And especially if the reason for exclusion is not linked to their disability. For example a child with a physical disability as only SEN need could face sanctions for repeated use of foul language, whereas a child with tourette's could not.

The school clearly has not. However, as I stated, in Scotland it would be down to the LA to organise this. I'd be interested to know who should have oversight of this in England.

I hope your DD is happy at the new school and makes new friends quickly.

I can't say that I'm surprised at the ablist comments. Certain posters seem to think that their children should be allowed to behave however they feel with no repercussions. It's funny how this boy isn't having meltdowns at lashing out at anyone but is targeting and picking on a small girl who is unlikely to fight back.

A safeguarding issue. The OP could make a formal complaint to the school about how they are implementing their behaviour policy, if she wants.

I'm glad you're moving her.

I would still be pursuing a formal complaint about how it's all been handled to the school's governing body.

Infuriating that people still have to move the victims of bullies instead of the other way around. Been there, done that, and it was awful, so I really feel for OP's daughter.