Controversial approach to Santa

I used to say the real Santa was in the North Pole with the elves making the toys (I know I know but my kids loved Santa) so he has stand in santas that he sends out! I think by about 7 my kids cottoned on. They played along for a bit. However they all still make a huge deal over xmas as adults

This isn't true for me. I do want my kids to have proper gratitude and write thank you letters to people kind enough to give them gifts. But also, I felt humiliated and like a gullible idiot when I was told Santa wasn't real and it made me deeply uncomfortable about tricking kids in to believing a known lie. I am not lazy and make plenty of effort around Christmas.

Also, Santa is nothing to do with Jesus's birth which is the actual point of the celebration.

There's loads of joy at Christmas without Santa.

I don’t understand it, personally. I loved all the Santa hype when mine were little.

I really don't get why you think you're being controversial?!

You have toddlers who you haven't really talked to about Santa - let's be honest they'd have no idea what was going on if you did?!

Good luck navigating the early primary school years though.

As for your SIL - if she thinks her 8 and 9 year old genuinely still believe then she's deluded.

I have the same approach as you. I don't know if DC believes in Santa or not. Obviously they hear about him at school and in books, but it's a very international school so they also know many people don't celebrate Christmas or get presents then. They certainly wouldn't go around announcing to other children that Santa isn't real because they haven't asked directly and I've never confirmed either way.

I don't feel like I've missed any "magic". I think your SIL is being silly. They are only 2 and 3, they aren't thinking about it that deeply and are just excited to get presents whoever they're from.

We took a somewhat similar approach, though not as explicit. There were stockings and presents. We never mentioned Santa, but we did not police other people. At school, our daughter heard about Santa and decided it was a thing. We did not disagree with her or affirm. She sort of believed for a few years.

at some point she asked that the adults start getting stockings as well so we could all join in the Santa game.

Well exactly. Its not logical. So why get bothered by it being "spoiled"? It's not real.

I never made a massive deal about Santa or Christmas and that seemed to work well for my family. Like I remember childhood christmases where me and my siblings would have no sleep and there would be tears before breakfast and everyone would be on their worst behaviour. I have no idea how my mum put up with it. My youngest brother is 11 years younger than me and once it got to the stage of it just being him left believing she started fake daying him and telling him it was the day after it actually was. Christmas was much better then. More relaxed and less fraught. Especially for my poor mum.

This thread has made me think. I don't remember EVER believing in Father Christmas, or even being told stories about him. I loved Christmas and still do, but my children never had the whole Santa myth told to them (I don't think it occurred to me to do so) and they didn't suffer. We had more of a 'some people believe in this...' Pretty much like religion, I left them to make up their own minds - never telling them outright that it was a lie but not observing it in our own house.

They're all adults now and we all still adore Christmas.

Yes, that is a useful approach.

I just think all parents should remind their children of different attitudes and the benefit of not needing to chase the rabbit down the hole over it.

But digdongdoo all this "flying in the face" business is totally beside the point.

You are trying to apply logic to something that isn't a logical thing: it's just a bit of fun. That's the point.

I don't think anyone is telling their kids to blurt it out on purpose to spoil things. That's an imagined problem.
Just remind your believing kids that not everyone believes, then they won't be shocked when they hear it on the playground.

I think they are weirdly aggressive when you say you do.

All anyone is asking is that they don't have their dc blurt it out to other children who enjoy it. I can't see why that is such a big ask to be honest.

That really flies in the face of your earlier concerns about kids like mine "spoiling" it. Either your kids can cope with varying beliefs or they can't. Otherwise you're just lying for the sake of it, and that's not very magical.

The beauty of it though is that you can pick and choose. You don't have to do the elf at all but if you do, they can just be around to cause mischief (and a mess), they don't have to report back to Santa just like you can simply ignore the naughty/nice list part about Santa. That's what we do.

Santa has helpers for this time of the year. He's far too busy to be making trips to Legoland or the garden centre if we all want our presents to be delivered in time.

The loveliness of Christmas isn't dependent on whether or not the kids believe in Father Christmas. I can't actually remember really believing in him (and my parents did pay lip service to it despite both being major atheists - we went to the grotto at Selfridges every year and I always hung up a stocking) but I still loved seeing the empty stocking at bedtime and the full one in the morning. I'm afraid for most kids it's much more about what's in the stocking than who filled it.

We do a big family Christmas and the magic for the kids is much more in presents and playing together and eating together than it is in whether or not a magic wizard delivered the toys.

I think people are weirdly aggressive when you day you don't do Father Christmas (hate the term Santa). I don't remember ever believing in FC, I think my family must have been like yours, it was never mentioned. Christmas was still always magical. I did do it for my son when he was tiny though. I think he cottoned on when he was about 7.

Honestly, people seem to manage.

Children clearly absorb what they absorb and privately reject the bits they don't believe, but most people seem to manage to "live and let live" with it.

TBH neither I nor my dc have ever asked that much about it. It is what it is. Don't scratch too hard or you ruin the patina. Just kick back and enjoy it.

But if you have dc who don't read between lines much I guess it probably gets awkward.

I do think it is a little sad… we are a fully believing household. And clearly we aren’t believing in a jolly, red suited, Lapland dwelling, omnipresent, fat man. It’s the magic and the wonder that we are all Santa - bringing joy and love to each other. I think it teaches children to join in to believing the world can be magical and peaceful for at least a day if we all work together.

I guess, maybe in the absence of believing in a jolly, toga wearing, cloud dwelling, omnipresent, god man.

i don’t know where my DD found out about or managed to fully believe in the Easter Bunny, as I never mentioned that - but by her first year in school she was completely convinced. So you may find that happens to your kids too.

It’s your life but joy, excitement, wonder, magic and sharing are surely things to be encouraged.

We also do small things in a stocking from Santa and big things from parents. My DD specifically asked that Santa be discouraged from coming into her room and that she could hang her stocking by the fireplace. Works very well for us of course!

No elf on the shelf for us. I told her I didn’t want to put up with that kind of mischief and I have a choice of who to let into my house!! And I did not have the time or energy with work etc to be sorting that out!

Is there ever a point where you feel you've dug deep enough with the lies? Do you struggle to remember them? How do your kids handle it when their friends think garden centre Santa was the real deal?

That's it. Or a third possibility, they're horrified at suddenly being told some bloke is coming into their house at night because it's new information!

Edited to add: I agree with not making it a huge thing or working too hard to provide evidence. I go with a middle ground, we talk about santa, have stockings but when they are ready to figure it out it's explained that it's a fun story but that some children really believe it and they're not to spoil it!

I agree. My Christmases were wonderful - my family are Christian. Santa is just a cute bit of fun, like decorating the tree and making a wish when you stir the Christmas pudding mixture.

Oh they don't send the REAL Santa out to the malls.

They are messengers who report back. Santa can't possibly leave North Pole Headquarters at that time of year.

But everyone who is “pro Santa”:

it is a harmless fiction when Santa brings a small stocking containing an orange, an apple and a wooden toy, he “eats” a mince pie. A nice fun thing.

It’s very different when he brings expensive gifts to some kids but not others, when you have apps faking photos that show the reindeer standing in your bedroom and when the TV has a Santa tracker showing you which country Santa is currently visiting. And when he sends elves which come to life every night and report back to Santa if you are bad (how sinister is that?!)

By making it such a big thing, haven’t we gone too far - a touch of childhood magic has become a huge faked reality?

ds noticed age 4 that Santa is apparently in at least several places at once - he saw him with his grandad at exactly the same time his friend Billy saw him at Legoland. And whenever he encounters Santa he looks different. He’s not dumb - he has asked how Santa has time to be in every shopping precinct, school fair and garden centre in the world every Saturday. And when he saw him in school he was fat but next day at the department store he looked thin.
How do I answer that?

They admitted they gradually worked it out but enjoyed maintaining the fiction.

I think there is a lot of this. IMO it's perfectly harmless. I only remember feeling gratitude to my parents for making everything fun.

At the end of the day, I think the important thing is to HAVE traditions. That is what makes the time of year special and makes it your family's thing. It probably doesn't matter if that is paella not traditional Christmas dinner, or donating gifts not getting them. But I think the sense of bonding and belonging by doing something that works for your family is really what it is about. But I'm hugely pleased our family had father Christmas!