Migrants required to pass A Level Standard of English

THIIIIIIISSS!

All of them?

And are all immigrants to the UK a burden?

Except people hate it when immigrants are more successful than the natives.

I don’t know the latest, but it did used to be funded - for medical, welfare and legal appointments.

The difference being that Brits in Spain are economically self sufficient and are not a burden for the Spanish tax payer to support.

Maybe " they" should concentrate on improving the standards of UK citizens.

You're right about migrants having a basic grasp of English and also being willing to learn, but A level?

Completely agree 👆

All those British people in Spain…

If you move to a country on a permanent or long term basis and don’t speak the language, you’re basically saying “I don’t know want to integrate or participate in society”.

I know Australia required English language tests for PR. There are some exemptions though. As a British passport holder I was not required to sit an English language test. My German and Norwegian friends found it fairly easy but they are fluent in English.

I doubt it’s that hard as the woman who administered my PR health check had a shockingly bad level of English (unless she was there on a 457 visa.)

I do find it bizarre that anyone would choose to live in a country and not speak the language. But they are the ones who bear that burden of inconvenience.

In an earlier post I described my own experience of dealing with medical professionals in the UK whose spoken English was woefully inadequate and who were unable to communicate with their patients and patients’ relatives. In those cases the burden of inconvenience (at best) or at worst, actual harm due to the professionals’ inability to communicate was on the English speaking patient in an English speaking country.

If someone moved from the UK to Spain to work as a nurse or a doctor, I would expect/hope that they would be able to speak fluent Spanish.

What other countries fund translators for people who have moved there? I don't know of any. Usually people who need translation have to pay for it themselves

And wouldn't generally be imported surely

As an A Level student I would hope you have the capacity to realise that an A Level standard of language for a non native speaker is a very different thing than one for a native speaker.

I'm not sure being retired is less of a reason. The retirees I know in Spain still need services, plumber, doctor, hairdresser, dentist, and expect everyone to speak English while moaning about foreigners in Britain.

From the BBC news article it says the increased standard is only required by migrants applying to come in under the "skilled worker" or "high potential individual" visas. And I suspect the English language ability of existing/native workers in similar such roles would also be at an equivalent higher standard. So I think the media is pretty abomnible for their headline grabbing hype making out A-level requirement will be for all migrants. The media really seems to want to fuel bad feeling instead of educating people on what's actually happening. It's a disgusting industry these days. Clickbait crap that the masses don't question.

A Level seems a strange benchmark for all sorts of reasons. Of those who do A Level English only some do linguistics/language.

About 10 years ago, my lovely colleague and her DH became British Citizens. The British history she learned and quite a lot of the other stuff seemed - even then - far more than necessary.

Where is this stat from?!

And there’s the pressure of funding translation services when money is right. Sometimes people who’ve been in Britain for decades still require these services and I think that’s a bad reflection on them and their culture.

Because it’s natural to want to control/improve/put right something where you actually can.

Just because we might be stuck with an indigenous population whose educational achievements leave a lot to be desired doesn’t mean we want to import more of the same. And it’s common sense - it’s advantageous both to the indigenous population and immigrants that they have a good grasp of the language.

This comment completely ignores the issues around parallel societies. Look at many of the Northern mill towns.
People who came to this country years ago speak little or no English because they live in their parallel grouping and do not need it. Social life is entirely within the community, shops managed by the same ethnic group serve that community. This particularly affects women who - usually for cultural reasons - are discouraged from learning English because it makes them more independent and they can access eg domestic violence support.
It disadvantages their children who arrive in the school system with little or no English. Since the schools in those communities are also dominated by that ethnic group they do not speak English outside the classroom either.

I thought about ex pats as I’ve been reading this thread but as most of them move to Spain to retire then language proficiency is less of an issue. Younger people I know who have moved to Spain to work do speak good Spanish.

An improved measure of English speaking ability is a great idea. Making A Level English the standard is ridiculous.

I have an English Language A-Level. All I remember is learning about the importance of a pre modal auxiliary verb in a piece of prose.

I doubt many native English speakers know what a verb(**) is never mind an auxiliary one and even less its pre-modal nature. Indeed I remember the teacher having to teach us what verbs, nouns and adjectives were as we hadn’t actually been taught.

** It’s a doing word apparently.

The problem with this is that you'd need to integrate.

There are a lot of immigrants living on my road. I only really speak to my NDNs on both sides.

One side - both young, both working and both I'd describe as fluent. On the other, the husband works and is fluent. His wife doesn't work, only really engages with her friends and her standard of Englush is very low. We exchange pleasantries - how are you? We are going on holiday. Where are you going? level of conversation. But she wouldn't have the language skills to work (they have young children).

I have friends who are second generation immigrants and their dads are fluent (I've spoken with them). Their mums came here 40 years ago and still can't get by in English because they've only ever really communicated in their native language with friends who have a shared language. Their husbands and adult children act as their interpreters.

You are right that if people immerse themselves in a language they will learn it quickly but, where they don't, just being in a country doesn't guarantee you'll learn the language.

Again, look at the British ex pats living in Spain who only want to eat at English restaurants, shop in English shops and don't learn Spanish because they have their own English speaking communities. They're not fluent in Spanish because they don't need to be.

So to become fluent, people need to work and/or have the basic level of language skills to enable them to engage and build on those.

A lot of people can get by with very rudimentary language skills and gesture but this doesnt equate to functional language which is all 'A Level standard' would provide.

I've gone through the process to obtain citizenship of an EU country and think the whole process of language requirement is a positive thing, if it's done right.
The country I live in has a fairly marginal language, not one spoken worldwide so they are keen to preserve it, they don't demand qualifications in advance but adults with work visas, study visas and migration /family reunification the person entering the country is offered 3 years of funded language learning, and a language qualification is required for citizenship (unless the individual has extreme learning difficulties such that formal language testing is not possible) and some employment.

It's very flexible, much of it evening classes, and different levels are offered to suit all sorts of groups - from people who need high school /university level language skills, dyslexia friendly classes, to a whole set up for those who are illiterate or have never been in formal education before. This also links to further adult literacy /numeracy opportunities, and the potential for work related qualifications.
The language learning has a large cultural component, as a certain amount of information on civics , society, social rules, history and culture is embedded in the lessons and topics. In that way it helps avoid ghettoisation and the sort of issue that arise with having groups living in enclaves who are not informed about or integrated with the land they live in, or living by it's rules or laws. It's also particularly beneficial for female migrants, especially those entering the country due to marriage or family reunion, as the expectation and opportunity for integration is built in. There are still problems, but I think overall, a language requirement put together with the infra works well here and is overall a positive for both society and the individuals migrating here