To be fed up of the "home birth is risky" misinformation?

But that is conflating two issues.

The state of midwifery services in this country is appalling, no one is arguing that. However, that in your area there are not enough home birth midwives (ironically probably because the hospitals are so understaffed that women are opting for home to try and guarantee getting a midwife) doesnt alter the facts that home birth in a low risk pregnancies is safer, with fewer post birth infections and less likely to end in interventions such as c sections etc.

There is a big issue around how many emergencies are caused by being in hospital. In some cases we have no way of knowing, but the stats bear out the fact that many are indeed caused by being there in the first place.

The midwife who was sat there with me didn't think my labour was terrible, she thought everything was fine. It went terribly in the sense that I wasn't progressing but she kept saying there was no cause for concern. As soon as a doctor saw me he identified that the baby was in distress, which she'd missed, and that my baby needed to be born immediately. I was wheeled into theatre and my baby was out within six minutes. I could see the doctor was furious with the midwife

@everychildmatters I'm so sorry you had such a poor experience, and about your child's hearing damage, that's awful. I've heard of many bad experiences about home births too though tragically, including terrible outcomes for the babies involved. The system is simply too stretched.

You said "my labour was terrible" - so you would have been transferred in in any case/

I take your point (although I guess I probably know my birth better than yours, and my 'proof' is that the doctor who delivered my baby literally told me this was the case, so I think I'm probably correct) but I definitely don't accept that home birth midwives "stay with the mother the whole time, pick up far earlier on issues and will always err on the side of caution" - maybe in an ideal world, fine, but not the world I live in! In my area, the home births team is very popular, but is as stretched as any other part of the NHS, and stories abound of the midwives in the home births team not turning up until the last minute, especially for first babies where they never seem to believe the women who say they are in established labour. My neighbour opted for a home birth and her midwife did not arrive until the head was out, she ended up giving birth terrified in her shower clutching her mobile phone to her face, it sounded horrendous.

That's not true. Hospital births are riskier because they are not a good environment to give birth. They stifle oxytocin levels and interrupt labour. Then you get the interventions which lead to more traumatic births. A good midwife will know when to transfer a home birth to hospital to get extra care. The stats just don't bare out what you are saying.

The issue with "my baby would have died" is that you have no proof of that.

Midwives in home birth situations stay with the mother the whole time, pick up far earlier on issues and will always err on the side of caution. In hospital women are left to labour alone and issues are often not picked up on until they are emergencies, when earlier intervention may mean that they would never have become emergencies at all.

You dont know that you would have needed a crash C section if you had had an attentive midwife with you the whole time. If your monitoring had been done by an experienced hands on professional and not one midwife watching 8 different monitors on a screen in a different room.

You cant say with any level of certaintly that your baby would have died at home, simply that you both almost died despite being in hospital.

But how do you know how high risk your birth will be until it happens? I was categorised as low risk my whole first pregnancy, not a single concern, I was encouraged by my NCT leader and midwives to try home birth or midwife-led birth centre. But I chose a hospital birth and thank God I did. My labour was terrible, my baby became distressed and I needed a crash C section to save both our lives. You can't always predict which births will be safe to happen at home. My baby would have died!

I had a very long normal labour and then would have bled to death had I not been whisked into theatre. They literally got me in in less than 5 minutes and I wasn’t even knocked out before they started operating on me it was that bad. I would have just died on my own living room floor if I had had a home birth.

The problem with giving birth is that it is completely unpredictable. So some women won't have any particular risks, but still develop devastating complications. Others may be high risk and sail through birth easily. We just don't know which women are going to develop complications, all we can do is put them in a low or high risk category. There will always be women who would have been better off not giving birth at home, but no one would have thought so beforehand.

I do understand women who don't want to give birth in hospital because maternity care is awful. I gave birth in hospital twice and in my experience the problem with hospitals is the impatience, lack of empathy, and fear of litigation of the staff who work there. The midwives I encountered were mostly in a rush to get it over with, they just weren't interested in letting things progress naturally. There is also a general attitude of arrogance and disdain for women - basically just everyday misogyny, which is particularly painful in such an intimate setting.
I am not having any more children and I am so glad I won't need maternity care ever again.

The issue is that maternity care in this country is patchy at best and appalling at worst. I believe the research indicates that midwife-led births, conducted by experienced midwives with minimal medical intervention, are optimal and possible for most women. However, 'home birth' can mean many things...from a carefully planned, experienced midwife-led, risk-assessed birth to a woman with an inexperienced birthing partner doing it alone in an unsuitable environment. The reality is that we do not have the resources to provide every woman with an optimal home birth experience, or even a midwife-led birthing centre equivalent. Quite often there are not enough midwives to cover hospital births, and certainly not available midwives to be on-call for home births. There is also the reality that any birth can suddenly become a medical emergency, for a variety of reasons. Until we get to grips with funding and resourcing proper maternity provision, it is not the case that home births are 'safer' or 'as safe as' hospital births. I think a lot of people who have positive home birth experiences forget the number of women and children who died in childbirth before the advent of medicated intervention as standard.

The original "Hospital = Safe" idea came from the late 60's/early 70's when the death/injury rates for both mother and child dropped dramatically at a time when hospital birth rates shot up.

So the logical conclusion was that this must be causal when in fact it has been shown that it was more to do with increased understanding of infection control, better and cleaner homes with running water, pest control etc There was a campaign that all births should happen in hospital and it was floated that homes births be banned altogether. The home birth rate dropped to less than 1% in the 1970's and 80's as women who wanted one were simply ignored and forced into hospital.

Various studies have been done the back up the claims that home births in the right circumstances are safer than hospital, but the sad fact is that home births are more expensive to the NHS with two midwives per labouring woman. They would rather have those two midwives overseeing 8 women on a delivery ward, so discourage it.

No they don't. Try getting a doctor to see you to discuss a c-section if you are classified as 'low risk'.

I thought the same but not so sure, I had a textbook pregnancy up until 38 weeks, no problems at all until I went in for reduced foetal movement, I had an emergency c section that same day. My baby would have died if I didn’t go in or if I had a vaginal birth. The cord was wrapped around her neck 5 times but we only knew that when she came out at surgery. The doctors knew something was up though and I’m so grateful for how fast they acted. This is coming from someone who did a hypnobirthing course.

I agree, although a lot of it is probably down to money and funding.

I see the idea behind separate MLU and labour ward but not sure it really works. With my 2nd baby I remember getting comfortable in the room on the MLU, only to be transferred near the end of labour which was just annoying, disruptive, also quite undignified being wheeled along corridors all exposed and in pain. Detrimental to the labour process IMO.

There was also a nearby town that had a midwife led birthing unit built.. nowhere near to a hospital! So anybody needing a hospital labour ward would have to be transferred. They only admitted lower risk women but still. I have no idea if it’s still in use, will have to look it up.

And I totally agree about the environments. A midwife friend was telling me a while ago that she hated how the MLU had been refurbed with homely rooms, birthing pools, low lighting etc whilst the labour ward was just all harsh bright lighting, completely clinical atmosphere. Sad for the women who have to start off on labour ward, it seems unfair. There’s no reason why you can’t combine the two.

Well, my baby got stuck, no reason to think this would happen until half way through labour. He would have died if I could not have been rushed to the operating theatre at 5am.
My other baby breached in the final week of my pregnancy and he also would have died if I didn't have a c section.
I also could have died in both instances if ai wasnt in hospital for the births
I also know people that have home birthed and it was all fine and lovely.
I think it is a risk to home birth.

That's true, though even 20 years ago in my first (very small!) NCT class I was 29 and the other mums were both 39 having their first babies. One of them had another baby at 42. They both had interventions unsurprisingly though.

I was under the homebirth team and this simply isnt true. I knew I was going to be going into hospital form about 37 weeks because I was breech and they were wonderful and I stayed under their care. If they were in the hospital (they were at another birth so I wouldn't have got my home birth anyway!) then they would have come and supported me there.

I would put money on the woman on Instagram using private midwives.

Im glad I wasn’t too far from the operating theatre or I could have bled to death

although perhaps if I had better care during the birth
perhaps wouldn’t have had a 4th degree year and pph

I'd also just like to say I wanted a home birth (but was breech so advised against), the homebirth midwifes are all highly experienced and trained, this is what outweighs the risk. I hope noone gets put off home birth but I do hope they follow advice. My breech baby would have died if I was at home, I'm sure of it, I'm so glad every midwife on that team firmly told me they did not feel confident doing this.

I just think women need clear and balanced information, not to be pulled in either direction or have care influenced by some sort of birth ideology.

I do think birth plans can be important though. I had a similar plan to you for my first baby, but afterwards I realised the hospital had taken steps and actions that I wouldn’t have chosen if I’d known the risks/benefits/alternatives. I realised it’s not always straightforward and what happens can even differ depending on what hospital you’re in, so I think it’s good to be educated on what might arise and what choices you would make in certain situations.

Don’t know, you’re just going to get survivors bias here either way.

Lots of babies & mothers have had complications and/or died during home births and hospital births. Saying I had five kids in hospital and they all needed intervention or I had my five kids at home and they’re all fine proves nothing really.

I think there will always be a stigma around it just for the people who are cautious. I’m a nurse & I trust hospitals and wouldn’t ever think of having a home birth, but people who want them are amazing & there’s absolutely situations where that’s the best option.

Being pregnant and giving birth are some of the riskier behaviours a human can partake in regardless of what way you do it.

I think the problem is there's a battle between Dr's who want to give everyone a csection or induction and then medical professionals who are pushing back (rightly so) and advocating for home births, less intervention, vaginal breech etc so sometimes it feels as though maybe you are safer away from the hospital, obviously in this poor lady's case she wasn't.