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Original poster

Friend and Continued Work Absence

237 replies

GentleWord · 14/10/2025 07:16

I have a friend who has some mental and physical health diagnoses. She qualified as a teacher more than ten years ago. She has worked in different settings - state schools, private schools, and preschools.

Since then, she has had a few jobs as a teacher, but on average, she has up to half the time she is employed off sick. This does become an issue, and mostly she has to move on.

Never quietly. It usually goes through legal channels and I know the company have settled at least twice.

Before, I didn't think much about this, but now I have reason to think about schooling, I don't think it is fair that she keeps taking jobs that she cannot do. I'm actually unsure how she manages to get a new job with her history but apparently schools have only very recently been demanding of the last reference and now you can give "bad" references.

I don't think it is fair on the children to have a teacher who is so unreliable. I don't think it is fair on the staff. I think after a decade, it should be clear to her and her family that she cannot be a teacher. However, I think they cling to her profession as a status thing.

The same pattern is occurring again where shw is started to have repeated and medium term absences from a job she started last year. I think this time I should be a bit more honest with her about her career and the other people affected by how she engages with her job.

Unreasonable - dont say anything and just support her

Reasonable - find the words to say that teaching isn't an appropriate career choice.

OP posts:
Original poster
GentleWord · 14/10/2025 07:54

PinkFrogss · 14/10/2025 07:46

I don’t know what rules you’re thinking of, you’ve always been able to give a bad reference as long as it is factual. Including something like absence in a reference may be negative but is easily proven as true.

Unless she’s moved round frequently I’m also surprised there hasn’t been word of mouth about a teacher working at loads of different schools in a geographic location and having a lot of absence.

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Safer recruiting I think it is called.

OP posts:
Swiftie1878 · 14/10/2025 07:51

GentleWord · 14/10/2025 07:26

Because I wouldn't want my own child to have a teacher who was frequently absent. Sometimes for weeks and on top of that, odd days.

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Is she genuinely sick/too poorly to work?
What support is she getting if her illnesses make her, in practical terms, unemployable?

youmustbeshittingme · 14/10/2025 07:47

GentleWord · 14/10/2025 07:44

I dont think you can be a good teacher and be absent as much as she is. You can be good with the kids. You cant be a good teacher for the class.

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You continue to cherry pick the bits of my post to respond to. Is it because they don’t suit your narrative? Or actually you have no idea what her working environment has been like or how employers have supported her and this is just a judgmental moan from a frenemy.

DeadsoulsAngel · 14/10/2025 07:47

Surely regardless of references etc she’s going to run out of local schools at some point? Or is she in a major city? Even then, teachers talk, she can’t stop it.

Autumn38 · 14/10/2025 07:47

youmustbeshittingme · 14/10/2025 07:26

It sounds like, despite her difficulties, she is trying to work and maintain a profession.

She needs to be supported to do that and her employer has a statutory obligation to do so. What do you propose she does if she leaves her job? What job would be acceptable to be unwell in?

People are constantly moaning about benefit claimants on here and in the media. You can’t have it both ways. If we want sick and disabled people to keep working then we have to make adjustments for the impact their disability or health issues may have.

If she is a teacher in a state school then the tax payer is still paying for her sick leave. She will still be getting paid AND the school will then need to find the funds for a supply teacher. Supply teachers are not obligated to plan or mark. So they will effectively being babysat (very expensively) whilst she is off sick.

if she would accept that she can’t work full time and accept a part time teacher then the school could implement a job share situation with another part time teacher.

OP’s friend needs to take some responsibility and adapt her work life to her abilities.

Wakeuplittlebunnies · 14/10/2025 07:46

She should do supply only

dottiedodah · 14/10/2025 07:46

I think you are being unfair TBH. If she has health issues she is trying to overcome them .She is a trained Teacher ,surely she should be allowed a chance?,Why take a job from a person who isnt qualified.I think you are letting your feelings of having young DC in School ,cloud your judgement! Many Teachers /Nurses whatever have stress leave as well .

PinkFrogss · 14/10/2025 07:46

GentleWord · 14/10/2025 07:36

Her dad is a lawyer and I really think they have managed to get at least two settlements. I don't understand why they feel they can't write honest references either. I heard some rules changed this Spetember though.

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I don’t know what rules you’re thinking of, you’ve always been able to give a bad reference as long as it is factual. Including something like absence in a reference may be negative but is easily proven as true.

Unless she’s moved round frequently I’m also surprised there hasn’t been word of mouth about a teacher working at loads of different schools in a geographic location and having a lot of absence.

JMSA · 14/10/2025 07:46

You are not being unreasonable AT ALL. And I say this as someone who works in secondary education. If you’re not cut out for the job, do yourself and everyone else a favour and leave.

AgnesX · 14/10/2025 07:44

GentleWord · 14/10/2025 07:39

I think supporting our friends when they are behaving unethically isn't very friendly.

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You're downright judgemental which isn't very friendly either.

Original poster
GentleWord · 14/10/2025 07:44

youmustbeshittingme · 14/10/2025 07:41

How do you know she’s a bad teacher? She may be a very good teacher when she’s able to work.

You seem to think it’s ok to trash equality legislation. You also haven’t addressed the point about workplace stress and poor treatment directly contributing to the levels of sickness in some roles.

I wonder how she is supported to do her job and what the culture is in the schools she’s worked in. I can tell you there are some incredibly toxic work environments that actively make people ill.

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I dont think you can be a good teacher and be absent as much as she is. You can be good with the kids. You cant be a good teacher for the class.

OP posts:
Macaroni46 · 14/10/2025 07:43

I understand where you’re coming from OP. There are two issues.

  1. I think you’ve lost respect for her and so probably the friendship is over.
  2. One needs to be very robust both physically and mentally to be a teacher and clearly she isn’t. I think you’re right that it’s the wrong profession for her. With a less demanding job, she may well not need so much time off.
Original poster
GentleWord · 14/10/2025 07:43

DublinLaLaLa · 14/10/2025 07:41

Likely to be glad to ‘pass her on’. I’m a teacher in a large (and lovely!) secondary and supply costs are crippling us - think in the hundreds of thousands by the end of the year. Unlike many jobs where people just get on with a missing colleague for a day or two, we have to have someone in front of the class.

We have a couple of people like your friend and it’s infuriating. Usually they manage to drag themselves back in just before the 6 weeks holiday to get their full pay for August. Off again in September for months.

I think sometimes you have to accept you are not cut out for particular career path. Maybe, a tutoring from home job might be more manageable for her?

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Yes. This was actually suggested to her when she had a long gap between jobs but she is a EY teacher so feels she wouldn't be compensated well for the age of kids that typvially require tutoring. She'd want like £50ph plus. More probably.

OP posts:
youmustbeshittingme · 14/10/2025 07:41

GentleWord · 14/10/2025 07:38

I have. I am not sure the fact that she worked hard to become a teacher means she can be an incompetent teacher. I think the students have the right to have a teacher who can physically and mentally do the job and they can depend on their presence.

You're speaking as if anyone who goes to uni deserves to get a job even if they are really bad at it and even if it involves delivering a human right like education to others.

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How do you know she’s a bad teacher? She may be a very good teacher when she’s able to work.

You seem to think it’s ok to trash equality legislation. You also haven’t addressed the point about workplace stress and poor treatment directly contributing to the levels of sickness in some roles.

I wonder how she is supported to do her job and what the culture is in the schools she’s worked in. I can tell you there are some incredibly toxic work environments that actively make people ill.

DublinLaLaLa · 14/10/2025 07:41

PinkFrogss · 14/10/2025 07:27

Weird that so many schools didn’t give any indication of her absence levels on references.

References in schools are certainly not a new thing and you’ve always been able to give a bad reference.

Don’t say anything as it’s unlikely to change her absence, but as it’s bother you so much end the friendship or at least distance yourself.

Likely to be glad to ‘pass her on’. I’m a teacher in a large (and lovely!) secondary and supply costs are crippling us - think in the hundreds of thousands by the end of the year. Unlike many jobs where people just get on with a missing colleague for a day or two, we have to have someone in front of the class.

We have a couple of people like your friend and it’s infuriating. Usually they manage to drag themselves back in just before the 6 weeks holiday to get their full pay for August. Off again in September for months.

I think sometimes you have to accept you are not cut out for particular career path. Maybe, a tutoring from home job might be more manageable for her?

Original poster
GentleWord · 14/10/2025 07:39

AgnesX · 14/10/2025 07:30

With friends like you who needs enemies.

I think supporting our friends when they are behaving unethically isn't very friendly.

OP posts:
Original poster
GentleWord · 14/10/2025 07:38

youmustbeshittingme · 14/10/2025 07:36

You haven’t addressed the points in my post.

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I have. I am not sure the fact that she worked hard to become a teacher means she can be an incompetent teacher. I think the students have the right to have a teacher who can physically and mentally do the job and they can depend on their presence.

You're speaking as if anyone who goes to uni deserves to get a job even if they are really bad at it and even if it involves delivering a human right like education to others.

OP posts:
Original poster
GentleWord · 14/10/2025 07:36

PinkFrogss · 14/10/2025 07:30

They would still have asked for a reference.

If she sued them it’s possible she got a settlement with an agreed reference though. But also very unlikely she’s gotten a settlement from every employer and none of them have indicated absence on a reference.

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Her dad is a lawyer and I really think they have managed to get at least two settlements. I don't understand why they feel they can't write honest references either. I heard some rules changed this Spetember though.

OP posts:
youmustbeshittingme · 14/10/2025 07:36

GentleWord · 14/10/2025 07:35

I do think that there is a responsibility to be able to deliver the job you're up for. I am not sure that her right to be a teacher trumps the students right to a stable education. Do you think it does, then?

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You haven’t addressed the points in my post.

Original poster
GentleWord · 14/10/2025 07:35

youmustbeshittingme · 14/10/2025 07:32

So people with disabilities should only be able to do certain jobs? Fucking hell.
Sorry Jackie but your MH issues mean that you can’t do the role you spent time training for so you need to go and work in Asda because those jobs don’t matter as much. That’s discrimination.

Can you hear yourself? I think you probably need to spend some time researching around equality legislation.

Have you also considered that the way that teachers and other public sector workers like nurses are treated has a direct impact on physical and emotional wellbeing? People are overworked and often bullied and more and more is expected of them so no wonder people go off sick.

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I do think that there is a responsibility to be able to deliver the job you're up for. I am not sure that her right to be a teacher trumps the students right to a stable education. Do you think it does, then?

OP posts:
Original poster
GentleWord · 14/10/2025 07:33

BridgeNewton · 14/10/2025 07:26

It absolutely is not fair to either the students or her colleagues to keep taking these jobs if she in unable to fulfill the role. Not only that it sounds as though she is expecting to take as much time off as she needs and get paid for it, which is borderline fraudulent.

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Yes I think by this time, three or four teaching jobs in, we know there is a pattern where she starts the job, all is well until she starts to feel that at least some of her colleagues don't like her and/or the workload increases. Such as towards the end of the year when children are moving on or up. Then she starts taking weeks off for mental health related conditions and this is often on top of odd days as she feels she is "immunocompromised" and has "severe IBS".

This will go on for months of fit notes, some presence and some absence until she basically has to leave.

OP posts:
youmustbeshittingme · 14/10/2025 07:32

GentleWord · 14/10/2025 07:27

I think it would cause fewer issues in say Asda than it would be when you are the reception teacher of a whole class.

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So people with disabilities should only be able to do certain jobs? Fucking hell.
Sorry Jackie but your MH issues mean that you can’t do the role you spent time training for so you need to go and work in Asda because those jobs don’t matter as much. That’s discrimination.

Can you hear yourself? I think you probably need to spend some time researching around equality legislation.

Have you also considered that the way that teachers and other public sector workers like nurses are treated has a direct impact on physical and emotional wellbeing? People are overworked and often bullied and more and more is expected of them so no wonder people go off sick.

EleanorReally · 14/10/2025 07:31

AgnesX · 14/10/2025 07:30

With friends like you who needs enemies.

i think you need to say nothing to your friend
you do not have her back

AgnesX · 14/10/2025 07:30

With friends like you who needs enemies.

PinkFrogss · 14/10/2025 07:30

GentleWord · 14/10/2025 07:29

I know that a job she was absent for over a third of the time she worked there just stated her dates of employment and roles. There was nothing about her continued absence every though she ended up leaving because of it (and then sued them).

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They would still have asked for a reference.

If she sued them it’s possible she got a settlement with an agreed reference though. But also very unlikely she’s gotten a settlement from every employer and none of them have indicated absence on a reference.

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