Friend and Continued Work Absence

Having always worked public sector jobs including teaching this is really common. Certain people will consistenly take the maximum amount of time off sick on full pay, then make sure they're back long enough to do the same again when the appropriate period of time has passed. They always seem to be miraculously better when the full pay time period runs out.

You can't get rid of them eventhough you know they're playing the system because of the unions. In teaching it absolutely affects the outcomes especially with little ones who need consistency. Used to really annoy me to see the same people year on year taking the maximum time on full pay, it became a running joke.

YABU. You are a spectator that is trying to be a pundit in this. Have you considered that besides your friend’s ongoing difficulties she might also feel trapped in this situation? Whatever route is taken into Education tends to mean you spend years qualifying and training and then if you find yourself in your friend’s situation you find yourself unqualified for careers outside Education. Then there is the separate issue of the Government wanting everyone to work regardless of all else - then the other issue that even to work somewhere considered “unskilled” you need either an obscure Level 2 to 5 qualification or 2 to 3 years experience- and on top of that I hope she hasn’t confided in you about any financial difficulties which makes jobs in other industries and working patterns unattainable.
Your friend won’t have told you everything. I’m sure you have not told her you’re talking about her in this way on a public forum. I am also disappointed that you becoming a parent has made you turn on your friend in this way - I imagine you would not want your DC friend to do this if they are struggling in the future. If you cannot offer genuine friendship to her, I suggest you start to withdraw contact so she can focus on her true friends

No decent (qualified, registered, experienced) therapist in my area of London - not a salubrious one either - is charging £45 an hour, I tell you that for nothing. You couldn’t even hire a PT for that.

There’s a lot of teachers off on long term sick that are getting paid full pay and have no intention of going back - giving no shits about the kids that aren’t getting a proper education because the school can’t afford to pay 2 teachers to do one job so they keep having temp covers to do their work and the children’s work suffers and therefore the children end up without a decent qualification at the end. All due to the selfishness of the teachers who don’t want to teach 🤬

My most recent therapist was £45 an hour, I only stopped seeing her a couple months ago. She’s based in the north but offers virtual therapy so available to anyone. Before that I was seeing a psychotherapist in London for £45 an
hour, that was a while ago, 2020.

My overall point is that you’re talking nonsense. You stated that it was simply a matter of priorities and she could afford to pay for private therapy because she was earning a salary, when you have no idea of her financial situation and your experience of therapy only costing £45 an hour is in no way relevant to what it costs these days.

Well clearly it wasn’t sufficient otherwise I wouldn’t have continued to access the other support I mentioned, including accessing private therapy, however over the years all of these attempts I’ve made have kept me going, kept me in work, and very gradually contributed to an improvement.

My overall point is that people should prioritise their resources to working on their mental health and chronic health conditions. What is your overall point? That we should all give up, accept defeat, quit work, and be done with it?

Thinking on this further it must have been a very long time ago, since you said you paid £45 an hour for your therapy. That is a very low hourly rate that you may only get these days if you qualified for reduced fees through being on benefits or similar. No therapist is charging £45 an hour now, more like double that. So your experience is in no way relevant to the discussion.

Wow

Again, are you living under a rock? Have you not heard about the dismantling of NHS mental health provisions? In my area they are virtually non existent with waiting lists running into years, and frankly if a free “beating the blues” course was sufficient to sort you out you couldn’t have been that unwell in the first place.

And how much is your rent and mortgage and all your other outgoings that you could afford private therapy on 25k a year?

I’ve accessed NHS CBT several times. First it was a ‘beating the blues’ e learning programme, then a 1:1 talking therapy and later a group therapy. I think the offer has got better over the years tbh, and talking therapies are now widely available on the NHS. As for private counselling, if she is off sick she is likely saving a fair bit of money from commuting, work lunches. She’s got the time to plan her weekly food budget and live in a low cost way to support spending on therapy if she thinks that’s what she needs. Although as I’ve said already, low cost alternatives are available and well evidenced.

Are you her carer?

Yes, some people are professionally on the sick. Rife in the public sector where being fired is more tricky.

Does this cause you to dislike her? Don't be her friend then.

And how long ago did you access free NHS CBT?
Have you tried to do so lately?
What part of the country do you live in that you can afford £90 a month on private therapy on top of your mortgage or rent on 25k a year, and how long ago was that?
You’re talking absolute nonsense and assuming your experience and circumstances are the same
as everyone else, and making yourself look rather silly in the process.

Not at all. When I was on a lower income I simply accessed free resources such as NHS CBT courses. As soon as I was earning over £25k I sought out private therapy. However low cost alternatives shouldn’t be knocked. I believe I’ve gained more from daily journaling and meditation than from paid therapy. My personal experience is anecdotal but there is a huge evidence base behind practises like this. And I’m only saying what worked for me as an example, other people will need different things. My only point really was to question what the OPs friend is doing with all her sick leave. Spending half of her 10 year career off on sick is massive and it is baffling to see people do this knowing that other people have similar chronic health issues but just get on with it. It’s a really hard slog but if we all went off sick when chronically ill the country would stop functioning.

I’ve worked in retail management for 22 years now. It’s not easy. It’s hard work and people are dicks.

It affects any job when someone has lots of time off due to illness. It is stressful and puts pressure on others.

Nice to see how little you think of us retail workers though.

That’s absolute bollocks. You are lucky that you had the money to throw at it.

this is why there is such a thing as 'reasonable adjustment'. There are plenty of ill or disabled people who would still be able to work as teachers, perhaps with reasonable adjustments made to ensure their needs are met. But equally in some scenarios, the candidate is not going to be able to fulfil the requirements of the role, and there aren't reasonable adjustments.

I would say, in this scenario, that the OP's friend's difficulties are to an extent incompatible with being a primary school teacher. One of the non-negotiables, really, is to be present as near to constantly as possible. It's not a job where a team can absorb your absence, as they can in many other roles - the children need consistency. They aren't receiving that. This woman seems to have a pattern of starting out OK and then taking the odd day of absence with eventually extends into long-term sick. If this is burnout, taking a job share role could help them preserve their MH. Or having a plan for how work is distributed over the day which builds in rest.

Nobody has a right to do whatever job they like. You always have to be able to do the work. I would argue that it's OP's friend's responsibility to assess the pattern presented in her periods of employment, and to reflect on whether this is actually serving the children she teaches. If she feels she can do better with support then she needs to discuss that with her employer, but she seems to coast from job to job. I find it hard to believe that none of her previous schools have tried to find ways to support her in doing her job. That would be first on their checklist.

It’s a question of priorities. It’s possible to get counselling sessions for £45 an hour, you could have those twice a month if that’s all you could afford. All the other tools I mentioned are free or very low cost. If you’ve got a chronic mental health or pain issue then I would say you should prioritise your resources (time and money) into that. Rather than simply flinging your hands in the air and complaining that the NHS isn’t helping and otherwise giving up.

If someone is taking months off work but not proactively doing anything in that period to improve their resilience then of course they will burnout again when they return to work as nothing has changed.

I think an important consideration is whether it's the job that's making her ill? The fact that it's happened repeatedly in the same pattern, suggests perhaps it is. Absolutely workplaces must be 100% supportive and make reasonable accommodations, but if you are fundamentally not suited (either mentally or physically) to the nature of the work, no amount of support will enable you to do the job.

There are physically demanding jobs I couldn't do because of previous injury, in no world would I apply for a physical job I knew I couldn't do and then get signed off sick becasue my body couldn't cope with the work. I balance life as a carer for a family member with work, I know I don't have the mental capacity for high stress roles and have moved 'downwards' to a role that I have the capacity for. I'm very happy with that and consider it my responsibility to find a job that I am suited to, that I can deliver well within my capabilities and capacity.

If you wanted to say something, I'd kindly help her explore other options and support her to move past family expectations- it must be soul destroying doing jobs that repeatedly cause mental health breakdowns, but there will be something out there that she loves and is great at...

Of course it’s not fair as she isn’t capable of doing the job she is employed to do.

she needs to find something she is actually capable of doing.

Is your friend's issue that causes her to be on sick leave related specifically to teaching/the nature of her job? (E.g. does she find the job stressful and end up signed off with stress? Or is it that, say, she has a back problem that keeps flaring up?)

Either way, I don't think I'd say anything in your shoes but I would feel the same as you - that essentially she may need to consider another job that she is able to do alongside whatever condition she is suffering from.

I agree with you, and would probably feel the same, but as it doesn't really affect you directly (unless she's teaching your kids of course) I'd just support her - you don't have to tell her she's brilliant or what she's doing is right - just listen when / if she wants to talk about it to you. Maybe try a few open "how's it going?" style questions to encourage her to search for her own conclusions.

''@InWithPeaceOutWithStress · Today 09:55
I disagree with this. Speaking as someone with a history of anxiety / IBS / chronic back pain / CFS / POTs and autism. She is on a salary so could afford therapy privately. I’ve tackled my issues with a mixture of - daily journaling, deep breathing, meditation, a nurosym device, guided hypnotherapy for IBS, and finding an exercise programme that works for my POTs and CFS. It’s totally possible to find a route to recovery that works for you. It’s taken a lot of research and diligence but there are so many free support groups and advice out there. It does get wearing when you see people taking endless time off work but apparently not using that time productively to get better.''

Good for you.

But it is disingenuous to suggest that everyone can ''recover''.

You don't ''recover'' from a life long disability or chronic health condition.

You can find ways to cope/manage better but it is inappropriate to suggest that everyone can just magically ''recover'' with a bit of therapy and journalling.

Nobody is going to ''recover'' from epilepsy, bipolar disorder, MS, Crohn's disease disease and many other conditions that way.

You don't ''recover'' from autism either.