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Friend and Continued Work Absence

237 replies

GentleWord · 14/10/2025 07:16

I have a friend who has some mental and physical health diagnoses. She qualified as a teacher more than ten years ago. She has worked in different settings - state schools, private schools, and preschools.

Since then, she has had a few jobs as a teacher, but on average, she has up to half the time she is employed off sick. This does become an issue, and mostly she has to move on.

Never quietly. It usually goes through legal channels and I know the company have settled at least twice.

Before, I didn't think much about this, but now I have reason to think about schooling, I don't think it is fair that she keeps taking jobs that she cannot do. I'm actually unsure how she manages to get a new job with her history but apparently schools have only very recently been demanding of the last reference and now you can give "bad" references.

I don't think it is fair on the children to have a teacher who is so unreliable. I don't think it is fair on the staff. I think after a decade, it should be clear to her and her family that she cannot be a teacher. However, I think they cling to her profession as a status thing.

The same pattern is occurring again where shw is started to have repeated and medium term absences from a job she started last year. I think this time I should be a bit more honest with her about her career and the other people affected by how she engages with her job.

Unreasonable - dont say anything and just support her

Reasonable - find the words to say that teaching isn't an appropriate career choice.

OP posts:
TwinklyStork · 14/10/2025 16:07

GentleWord · 14/10/2025 15:57

Who says that specific behaviour is ethical? I don't know anyone who has done that, myself. Most people have 2 or 3 kids over about 8 or 10 years.

I don't particularly think it is because it's deliberate and planned, as opposed to ill health which isn't. Ill health can't be helped. Pregnancy can. But it is legal, so by that token your friend isn't doing anything wrong. Plenty of people here will hold the view that repeated maternity is perfectly ethical, so I wonder what their opinion is on this, and whether, and how, it differs.

GentleWord · 14/10/2025 16:03

Cosyblankets · 14/10/2025 16:00

You hadn't mentioned any of that
Still not convinced

Why would I need to mention how I support my friend? This is about her not going to work and the kids not having a consistent teacher. Lots of people support her - financially, emotionally, physically even.

OP posts:
Cosyblankets · 14/10/2025 16:00

GentleWord · 14/10/2025 15:57

Who says that specific behaviour is ethical? I don't know anyone who has done that, myself. Most people have 2 or 3 kids over about 8 or 10 years.

You hadn't mentioned any of that
Still not convinced

GentleWord · 14/10/2025 15:57

TwinklyStork · 14/10/2025 15:55

It absolutely can and does if you have multiple children in close succession, as many people do. Plenty of women get jobs, get pregnant, take their full maternity allowance, go back to work, get pregnant again within months, take another full maternity allowance... and so on and so forth.

If that isn't unethical, then neither is working with ill health.

Who says that specific behaviour is ethical? I don't know anyone who has done that, myself. Most people have 2 or 3 kids over about 8 or 10 years.

OP posts:
TwinklyStork · 14/10/2025 15:55

GentleWord · 14/10/2025 15:44

Pregnancy usually means a fixed period off of work. It doesn't mean several stints of weeks off interspersed with odd days.

It absolutely can and does if you have multiple children in close succession, as many people do. Plenty of women get jobs, get pregnant, take their full maternity allowance, go back to work, get pregnant again within months, take another full maternity allowance... and so on and so forth.

If that isn't unethical, then neither is working with ill health.

GentleWord · 14/10/2025 15:53

Cosyblankets · 14/10/2025 15:49

You still haven't said how you support your friend.
The now I read the more obvious it is that this is a colleague you're pissed off with

I work in music media and marketing. We have very different jobs. Ive said how I support her over the years. From being in a+e in the middle ofnthe night with her in a mental health crisis, to making sure my wedding plans didnt leave her feeling rejected or isolated. To changing plans numerous times to be with her instead of my family, friends or partner. Starting.hobbies. cutting off friends. Not moving on one occasion.

I really think I do my bit. The two therapists I've had also agree that I do way more than enough for her. Having a close friend with EUPD isn't easy by any means. Have you ever been someone's "favourite person"?

OP posts:
GentleWord · 14/10/2025 15:49

TwinklyStork · 14/10/2025 13:12

None of which has anything to do with the way mental health can be affected by work stress.

She didnt have to take a job in teaching. She just wants to be a teacher.

OP posts:
Cosyblankets · 14/10/2025 15:49

You still haven't said how you support your friend.
The now I read the more obvious it is that this is a colleague you're pissed off with

GentleWord · 14/10/2025 15:44

TwinklyStork · 14/10/2025 15:40

Surely OP can look at her friend's behaviour and think it may be unethical to pursue job after job knowing how limited her ability to fulfil the terms of her employment is, without it meaning she's wishing bad things upon her, or have that mean she is a bad friend?

Your use of the word 'unethical' is interesting. I don't think it's any more unethical than when women deliberately start a new job knowing they're several months pregnant then immediately go off on maternity soon after starting, or take their full maternity leave entitlement knowing they have no intention of going back to work afterwards. That I think is avoidable because it's a certainty that it's going to happen, where as becoming ill, or becoming ill again, is not.

Sick and disabled people have employment rights too, and it's not unethical for them to do something as normal as get a job.

awaits chorus of THIS POSTER MUST BE A MAN!!!"* For the avoidance of doubt: not.

Pregnancy usually means a fixed period off of work. It doesn't mean several stints of weeks off interspersed with odd days.

OP posts:
GentleWord · 14/10/2025 15:42

InWithPeaceOutWithStress · 14/10/2025 09:55

I disagree with this. Speaking as someone with a history of anxiety / IBS / chronic back pain / CFS / POTs and autism. She is on a salary so could afford therapy privately. I’ve tackled my issues with a mixture of - daily journaling, deep breathing, meditation, a nurosym device, guided hypnotherapy for IBS, and finding an exercise programme that works for my POTs and CFS. It’s totally possible to find a route to recovery that works for you. It’s taken a lot of research and diligence but there are so many free support groups and advice out there. It does get wearing when you see people taking endless time off work but apparently not using that time productively to get better.

Yes and she has all her mental health therapy privately as her parents pay for it. How much of what goes on actually makes it to her general GP records, I am unsure. She's been in a very high profile private mental hospital a few times, not always voluntary either.

This isn't someone who is totally reliant on the NHS by any means.

OP posts:
TwinklyStork · 14/10/2025 15:40

Surely OP can look at her friend's behaviour and think it may be unethical to pursue job after job knowing how limited her ability to fulfil the terms of her employment is, without it meaning she's wishing bad things upon her, or have that mean she is a bad friend?

Your use of the word 'unethical' is interesting. I don't think it's any more unethical than when women deliberately start a new job knowing they're several months pregnant then immediately go off on maternity soon after starting, or take their full maternity leave entitlement knowing they have no intention of going back to work afterwards. That I think is avoidable because it's a certainty that it's going to happen, where as becoming ill, or becoming ill again, is not.

Sick and disabled people have employment rights too, and it's not unethical for them to do something as normal as get a job.

awaits chorus of THIS POSTER MUST BE A MAN!!!"* For the avoidance of doubt: not.

GentleWord · 14/10/2025 15:38

RoverReturn · 14/10/2025 13:18

I'm surprised that the employers aren't capable of reading her Cv or job application and seeing that she's got a poor job history. if they still offer her the job so be it.

If she's had her employment terminated before 2 years are up there's no legal basis to settlement surely. ?

You can say that they are discriminating against a protected characteristic apparently.

OP posts:
crackersinternational · 14/10/2025 15:11

Surely OP can look at her friend's behaviour and think it may be unethical to pursue job after job knowing how limited her ability to fulfil the terms of her employment is, without it meaning she's wishing bad things upon her, or have that mean she is a bad friend? Teaching is possibly not the right career for her as there is an expectation that for fixed weeks of the year you are expected to be fulfilling the duty of educating children. I have a family member much like the OP's friend, and whilst lovely, I honestly think she likes the idea of being a teacher more than the reality. She has had a lot of absence. The children she teaches have had a lot of supply teachers. Obviously I have no idea how this has affected their learning but I can't imagine it's great. She won't think about a career change, even though job clearly isn't really for her. I'm not sure what the answer is, as we should all be able to take time off for illness and recuperation, without fear of losing our jobs, but surely there comes a point where you can't just have the right to stay in a job that you can't actually do indefinitely?

DiscoBob · 14/10/2025 14:11

If I was her I would get a zero hours, very flexible job where I can cancel my shifts on a regular basis without penalisation. Obviously I wouldn't get paid for the days I'm off. Otherwise I'd consider medically retiring. It's true teaching is a very poor choice for someone that unwell. I mean no salaried job would accept fifty percent attendance.

Kimura · 14/10/2025 14:03

GentleWord · 14/10/2025 07:33

Yes I think by this time, three or four teaching jobs in, we know there is a pattern where she starts the job, all is well until she starts to feel that at least some of her colleagues don't like her and/or the workload increases. Such as towards the end of the year when children are moving on or up. Then she starts taking weeks off for mental health related conditions and this is often on top of odd days as she feels she is "immunocompromised" and has "severe IBS".

This will go on for months of fit notes, some presence and some absence until she basically has to leave.

Such as towards the end of the year when children are moving on or up. Then she starts taking weeks off for mental health related conditions and this is often on top of odd days as she feels she is "immunocompromised" and has "severe IBS".

As she feels she is immunocompromised? I'm sorry, I must have missed the part where you said that you're her doctor as well as her friend.

What you're getting at is that you think she's blagging or overplaying these conditions, and her mental health, in order to get time off work. What a lovely friend you must be. Why would you keep in contact with someone you clearly feel is a lazy scrounger...unless you just like having someone to look down on?

She's perfectly entitled to take employment in the field she's trained and qualified for, despite any health conditions. Her employer has legal duties towards any employee with certain health issues, and it is their responsibility - and their's only - to ensure that the children she is teaching aren't disadvantaged.

If multiple employers have let her go as a result of her health issues, an she's she's been successful in bringing tribunal cases against them, that means two things.

1- Her medical records will have been fully scrutinized, her doctors will have confirmed her conditions to be legitimate and serious enough for her to miss work, and multiple tribunals will have agreed with these assessments.

2 - Multiple employers have failed in their duty of care to you 'friend', and dismissed her illegally.

I don't know about you, but my first instinct in a situation like that would be to support my 'friend', not insist that she does a job that you feel is menial enough not to matter.

MaturingCheeseball · 14/10/2025 14:01

There are people like this though.

When I was a governor a head teacher did that “re-setting the clock” thing continuously. Apparently you are not able to view a candidate’s previous sickness record, and of course a reference wouldn’t mention it. The only way is to “informally” do a background check.

Anyone can fall ill with whatever complaint. Doing it time and again in different settings - especially if using the clock method - is not really playing fair.

TwinklyStork · 14/10/2025 13:56

Onlyonmumsne · 14/10/2025 13:47

Couldn’t agree more.

Yep. It’s a classic “sick person gets something I don’t, waaaaaaah, it’s not faaaaaaaaair” post, the OP picks the hot topic of children’s education so a whole forum of parents with a vested interest in that are onside with her.
Didn’t quite work out that way though, did it.

Onlyonmumsne · 14/10/2025 13:47

TwinklyStork · 14/10/2025 13:46

I actually wonder if this person exists at all, or if this thread is just a thinly disguised dig at people with mental or physical health issues. Some of the things this woman has said about her “friend” are vague and generic, she won’t answer specific questions, and some of her answers are so ludicrous as to be laughable.

This is probably someone who has a beef about a completely different colleague being “on the sick” and getting something (time off, sick pay) that she doesn’t. Either way, the OP is a thoroughly nasty and unpleasant individual.

Couldn’t agree more.

TwinklyStork · 14/10/2025 13:46

Cosyblankets · 14/10/2025 13:29

I see the OP has been back and answered a few points but still hasn't answered my question as to what support she gives her friend when she is struggling.

Is she really a friend OP? Or a colleague that you're covering for?

I actually wonder if this person exists at all, or if this thread is just a thinly disguised dig at people with mental or physical health issues. Some of the things this woman has said about her “friend” are vague and generic, she won’t answer specific questions, and some of her answers are so ludicrous as to be laughable.

This is probably someone who has a beef about a completely different colleague being “on the sick” and getting something (time off, sick pay) that she doesn’t. Either way, the OP is a thoroughly nasty and unpleasant individual.

Cosyblankets · 14/10/2025 13:29

I see the OP has been back and answered a few points but still hasn't answered my question as to what support she gives her friend when she is struggling.

Is she really a friend OP? Or a colleague that you're covering for?

RoverReturn · 14/10/2025 13:18

I'm surprised that the employers aren't capable of reading her Cv or job application and seeing that she's got a poor job history. if they still offer her the job so be it.

If she's had her employment terminated before 2 years are up there's no legal basis to settlement surely. ?

Onlyonmumsne · 14/10/2025 13:18

Do her a favour and cut the friendship. Imagine bitching about a ‘friend’ on the internet like this.

Macaroni46 · 14/10/2025 13:17

Beryls · 14/10/2025 12:57

Having always worked public sector jobs including teaching this is really common. Certain people will consistenly take the maximum amount of time off sick on full pay, then make sure they're back long enough to do the same again when the appropriate period of time has passed. They always seem to be miraculously better when the full pay time period runs out.

You can't get rid of them eventhough you know they're playing the system because of the unions. In teaching it absolutely affects the outcomes especially with little ones who need consistency. Used to really annoy me to see the same people year on year taking the maximum time on full pay, it became a running joke.

I’ve experienced this too. One school I worked at, both the head and deputy played this game for 3 years. Finally the governors ousted them. One would go off sick late September / early October and return late June. One year she went on a touring holiday of Canada in August. The following year, the Galápagos Islands. Miraculous recoveries each time.
Meanwhile, the rest of us covered extra duties, assemblies etc in her absence and the absolute piss take was when the SIP (school improvement partner) praised her for the school’s SATs results when she hadn’t even been there. The staff and parents lost all confidence in her and the governors (until they finally sorted her some sort of early retirement package at god knows what price) and the pupils were only not affected due to the huge efforts and high competence of the staff left behind and the fact they’d never really known them be there!

TwinklyStork · 14/10/2025 13:12

GentleWord · 14/10/2025 13:09

Most adults need to work to live. She comes from a rich family but they arent rich enough to fully finance her. She would never for instance, take social housing or pay rent. That's her values.

None of which has anything to do with the way mental health can be affected by work stress.

GentleWord · 14/10/2025 13:12

Merryoldgoat · 14/10/2025 09:10

And employers don’t pay a settlement unless they think they’re likely to loose at tribunal.

This really isn’t true. We paid a settlement a while back and there was a good chance of winning. The reality is the amount of time it took up was untenable and the consequent time costs of SLT plus HR and ICT just mean when an acceptable level was extended we took it.

It’s a balance. Would we have paid the £100k she wanted? Fuck no. We happily paid £30k which is where it ended up to put it to bed.

Yes this happens a lot

OP posts: