Why oh why are people giving their under 12s tablets?

Same !

I live in France. As it happens I got an email today from our equivalent of the NHS reminding me that children under 3 should not be exposed to screens at all, not even a TV on in the background, and that the use of screens in childcare settings and primary schools is prohibited by law.

I don’t know how old you are but I’m 40years old. When I was 9yrs (my daughter’s age) we had a game boy to share and a Nintendo. We were also able to watch TV after school and before bed. The difference is the duration they’re allowed on screen and what other hobbies and interests parents encourage - it’s not “the tablet” that’s the problem.

In the 1970s it was not uncommon to see a group of teenagers sitting In the bus stop all evening smoking,not speaking. I am a talker, p!enty of literature to indicate talking is not always conducive to developing concentration, listening, social or academic skills.We can look at any group of society and match our own beliefs to them. I have critiqued copious amounts of literature and have not been able to find any that conclusively link to what the op states. In many ways tablets are better than television as there is opportunity to interact. I see teenagers in the parks in London laughing and having a great deal of interaction with one another whilst preparing and filming videos not dissimilar to how we used to practice music and dance when forming rock groups.

Unlimited as in we don't pay attention to how long she has screen time for... some days it's more, some days it's none, and if she asks for something with a screen and theres no reason to say no then we say yes.

What it means is that she absolutely doesn't give a sh** about screens and mostly ignores them

Unlimited as in we don't pay attention to how long she has screen time for... some days it's more, some days it's none, and if she asks for something with a screen and theres no reason to say no then we say yes.

What it means is that she absolutely doesn't give a sh** about screens and mostly ignores them

You mean from our taxes 😂

I can’t believe so many parents are blasé about this stuff. Screens are unavoidable for older teens and young adults. But I see the effect of screens on me. I don’t know why people don’t worry a bit about this.

According to this thread, most kids are learning another language, engaging in urban planning and political discourse and only using their iPads for worthy activities. So perhaps all is ok and we are worrying for nothing.

Sometimes it can be to benefit everyone. As I've said before there is a middle ground. Parents need to clean, parents need to feed their children, parents need to buy food and medication, parents need the head space to parent. I feel the judgement comes from a place of privilege. It is easy to judge if a child will sit and independently play or do puzzles, or you have family, support from a partner or outsource chores.

But a lot of the time it’s not what is best for the child is it? It’s what is best for the parent.

The reason a child will often be given an iPad is because it has a benefit to the parent, ie. they need their child to be quiet and still whilst the parent works/cleans the kitchen/needs a break/wants to have a meal without questions from their child/wants to have an uninterrupted coffee with a friend/wants to walk around the shops without having to entertain their child.

I’d be surprised if many parents genuinely thinks it’s best for their child to sit playing on/watching an iPad than interacting with them or the child instead being able to be entertained by reading/drawing/doing puzzles or something.

My children have all had tablets from the age of 3.
My 11 year old boy comes home from school at 3pm, by 3:30 he's out with his friends, climbing trees, riding bikes, playing football. When he comes home at 6:30/7pm he has food, does his homework (if he has any that day). Then plays on his phone for an hour before bed. He eats around the table without technology in his hand. He does normal boy things. He just likes it to chill with for an hour before bed.
My 9 year old girl is neurodivergent, her tablet is her go to when she's feeling overwhelmed and yes she does spend a lot of time on it. But she will also play with her toys, draw/colour, go to her cousins to play (3 doors up), ride her scooter outside our house, and she also sits around the table for food without screens.
My 4 (nearly 5) year old has access to screens, but very rarely chooses to use them, she'd rather play, colour or read. When she does ask for screens, 95% of the time she just wants my phone to video call her Nans or her aunties and cousins.

In school they all use ipads/laptops to do work on at some point during the day. Screens are not always bad. Screens have not caused my 9 year old to be neurodivergent. They can be a good tool for learning, and yes they can be a good tool for giving a parent a half hour break sometimes. Moderation is key. I don't see them as any different to the TV being on in the background (actually I think that may even be worse if it's all day).

And this is exactly why no one can actually have a proper discussion about the harm it causes, there’s always an autism parent ready to jump in and call us ableist or whatever. They are damaging, that is a fact. And no, I do not believe that every child I see with an iPad/smartphone in their face has it out of desperation.
Also a parent to 2 older children with ASD/ADHD who I had to parent without using any tech because it just wasn’t available/affordable when they were younger.

I have a 3 year old and I’m in a due date group on Facebook with other parents and a lot of them bought their kids iPads for Christmas last year. So barely turned 2 years old and got an iPad already. We are really avoiding giving our child our phone or a tablet when we’re out with him.
We went for breakfast last weekend and the little girl at the table next to us had an iPad the entire time, she looked about 3/4

Yes same here.

Well actually we still have chrome books but they are getting replaced with iPads imminently.

Scottish government policy to provide for all children.

its been excellent for my DD with dyslexia

Unfortunately, it is common for young children to be handed tablets to ‘babysit’ them. Whilst their parent/s, carer, involve themselves in conversation or other activities.

There will be comparisons between using a tablet now and watching tv years ago.
There is no comparison.
Tablets are mobile and go wherever the young child goes, literally.

My advice would be to do a test on your young child. Remove the tablet and engage in play and other activities. Engage with them whilst you are having a coffee with a friend. Or play games whilst travelling. Read books together.

See the difference in your child’s behaviour after only a short time.

Having to use a laptop or other device will soon be upon your growing child.
Let them be children without the influence of electronic devices whilst they’re still so young.

It really does seem that small children are an ‘inconvenience’ in some ways.
I’ve lost count of the times I see a parent/carer walking with a pushchair/pram and the parent has a phone attached to their ear. Completely ignoring the child. Same, I’ve noticed in parks where the child can do what they like as their parent chats away or scrolls on their phone.

Sad times, a childhood passes by so quickly.

I can tell you how it worked for mine - and it wasn't just watch - the toca-boca games for example are fantastic.

It started when they were very little, they'd just watch whatever I was doing on the ipad, or play a game with fishes or fireworks that exploded when they touched the screen.

Once a bit older, the toca games - cutting hair, running a world or a band, swimming around as a fish, or watching youtube according do their interests (eldest went through a phase of watching trainspotter videos - hours of just trains going by!) - they just wander around with it, as they're playing/drawing/whatever it's with them so they can put something on.

When they hit about 4 or 5 they started watching actual TV shows/netflix, interspersed with whatever youtube channel they were into at the time (unboxing videos or whatever).

7-8+ and it started being game playthroughs/tactics/challenges and some more interesting youtube channels like food theory

My only rules were that if I asked them to stop watching something (eg. I didn't like the youtubers who yelled all the time) then they had to, it had to go away when I asked them to put it away (eg. mealtimes), homework had to be done and they had to be ready for school on time (we did have a short phase of no ipad until packed for school, but don't need it now). No ipad overnight (although once in the habit, it just goes on to charge at night and they grab it when they get up in the morning.

I have ADHD and feel calmer when I don't use my phone much in a day but still struggle not to use it. I hate how much time it wastes.

Also, I work with children with ADHD/ASD and find so many now need an iPad to regulate themselves whereas around 10 years ago the majority had learned strategies that didn't need a device.

I go for coffee each week with my parents and 2/4 year old niece and nephew. Both can sit and chat with us for an hour or so whereas friends' children who have always had iPads in these situations can't do without them.

This is all anecdotal so I wouldn't judge anyone for thinking differently but for me these are the reasons I wouldn't give a child an iPad. That doesn't mean I wouldn't let them have use of a family iPad occasionally but I wouldn't want them to rely on it for winding down, regulation or to get through a meal. Largely I don't want them to feel the way I feel about my phone as an adult - addicted basically.

On the other hand, the groups of teenagers hanging out in kids’ playgrounds, swearing at people and vandalising everything in sight have disappeared from my local community in recent years.

Just bear in mind that some of those parents are doing it out of desperation.

My daughter is now diagnosed AuDHD but when she was two and I had to go shopping, I had no choice but to strap her in a pram or she’d be gone. And I mean gone. But she hated being in her pram in shops so she’d cry and scream. Usually I could keep her quiet with food, sometimes by constant chatter but occasionally nothing would work except entertainment. Because she was two, doing something boring and a human with ADHD.

So go ahead and judge all you like, I could not care less. Parents do things that they don’t particularly want to because otherwise they wouldn’t be able to get all the shit done that they need to.

I’m really pleased for you that you haven’t had to resort to that. And I’m sure you’ll tell me that my daughter behaved that way because of screens and that’s why she’s got ADHD and to that I say 🤬

Proof?

You’re an anonymous poster on Mumsnet - don’t believe you, sorry.

(and even if you were, people should not blindly believe anything something says on an anonymous forum on the internet!)

That’s neglect. I can’t believe any parent would think that amount of screen time, and more importantly, no time for anything else that actually promotes healthy living, is acceptable.

Schoolwork.

The real reason why.- parents both have to work full time, have hardly any help from grandparents as they're also still working full time. Rising number of single parents that are absolutely on the edge. They need help. Life is almost impossible for a lot of people. A tablet gives them an hours necessary peace and quiet.
My kids are 4 and 2 and don't have a tablet yet but I'm in a really lucky position where my life is nowhere near as stressful as a lot of people's.

I agree it’s not ideal but I actually feel worse when I see half a dozen 12 or 16 year olds sitting outside in their meeting spot, mostly ignoring one another while they absorb TikTok. I mean at least the parent is literally physically there with the two year old, has usually chosen the programme they’re watching, and will in the vast majority of cases move the toddler onto another activity at some point. The 12 and 16 year olds are rotting their brains hour after hour, day after day just when they should be forging strong social bonds, exploring their surroundings and their creative/academic potential as emerging adults.