Why oh why are people giving their under 12s tablets?

I see your point but our kids have to live in the world that exists today and prepare for their future. A future that will involve using this sort of tech.

We can't keep them away from it, then hope when they are older they won't be miles behind the kids who are adept.

Tablets will increasingly be a feature of those kids' working lives. They need to know how to use this stuff, just like they need to know how to read and write.

That includes teaching them the risks and pitfalls. It's like letting them use a pair of scissors. You don't give them the biggest, sharpest pair, you keep an eye on them, you teach them how to use the tool safely. You don't refuse to let them cut anything out until they reach the age of 12.

Like most tools in life, it's all about how it's used. Of course, if you are leaving your five year old in front of crap on it for hours, that's not good. But the alternative isn't not having one at all, just like the alternative to leaving your toddler playing with your sharpest scissors isn't never letting them cut anything out.

It would be typical for people to receive slow responses, or no responses at all, when using instant messengers.

That's simply not true.

Nope! No focus or concentration on this ADHD brain actually, because what I didn't mention is I was REREADING books I'd already, hyper focussing on subjects, researching in detail the same way I NOW do online but with books. The way I'd devour an encyclopedia I see my son do the same about subjects, you wants to see a 7 year old hyper focus? Google David Attenborough after watching a documentary, the number of facts that boy can find. That is not the same as scrolling Tok Tok.

I look back with horror.

@Barnbrack Mine wasn't slow, I was on MSN messenger on my PC (and AOL Messenger during a brief period in America as a teen) and I studied and wrote coursework with my msn messenger in the background. I chatted to friends and formed relationships and researched research papers for hours. Ended up with a degree and a social life.

It would be typical for people to receive slow responses, or no responses at all, when using instant messengers.

I used to spend 4/5/6 hours a day on a weekend reading book after book of whatever series I was obsessed with which is not vastly different to my child building an extensive animal crossing world for himself.

Yes... books... this is a hobby that requires focus and an attention span...

Also we were absolutely green! No idea what was out there, no.idea of security etc, kids nowadays at least bloody know

Did you ever venture into Yahoo chatrooms? It was like the wild west in some of those rooms.

Yep! Add in a child who won't watch TV. Gaming was a genuine godsend.

Mine wasn't slow, I was on MSN messenger on my PC (and AOL Messenger during a brief period in America as a teen) and I studied and wrote coursework with my msn messenger in the background. I chatted to friends and formed relationships and researched research papers for hours. Ended up with a degree and a social life.

We also LOVED Google! We'd sit in the computer rooms at school and Google any old rubbish (and ask Jeeves, remember when you could ask Jeeves stuff?) we loved it! We became intelligent professional adults. I used to spend 4/5/6 hours a day on a weekend reading book after book of whatever series I was obsessed with which is not vastly different to my child building an extensive animal crossing world for himself.

My MSN messenger was never quiet. I was often in group chats trying to keep up.

There were also chatrooms, Camfrog, and online gaming.

Genuinely thought this thread was going to be about vitamins & paracetamol

I also disagree with this idea that it's always lazy parenting. I don't have a tablet yet for ds because I don't let him have enough screen time to justify getting him one. However as a lone parent sometimes I also need to get shit done - a prime example is when ds is just home from nursery, glued to me and I need to get dinner on the table. Some nights when he's especially tired or under the weather he will not leave me alone to play independently and he won't settle for bringing his toys into the kitchen with me, I'm not going to leave him upset, nor do I feel its safe to be cooking over a kitchen floor filled with a small child and toys. He's only 2 but has outgrown his wrap so I can't wear him anymore which I used to do in those moments nor would my back let me. So those are the types of moments I save screen time for. I don't see that as lazy in the slightest.

@Barnbrack I had MSN messenger when I was 16 which was 26 years ago and Myspace and bebo. So your timings are off there.

Instant messengers don't give instant dopamine hits. It can be slow to receive responses, and many messages go unanswered.

Bebo was around 2005 and was very short lived.

Jesus Christ, Bebo. Remember that shite?

I agree with you 100%.

No we are not. My point being that my child will simply swap one highly visual activity for another. But with tablet/phone access my child is learning about the world and current affairs some of the time - she likes researching in a way she just doesn't really do with books. And while graphic novels are fun, they aren't hugely educational!

I didn't suggest replacing actual puzzles with iPad puzzles. I just don't understand parents who proudly ban their children from learning to use technology.

DH and I both work in IT and our kids learned all about computers from a very young age. They have really benefited from that knowledge, and it certainly didn't stop them from reading books or spending lots of time outdoors.

It's just a question of balance.

I don't know. I wish we had no screens, bit I relied on DC having use of a tablet at around age 7, because it was the only way I could get any time to do anything that needed doing, especially in lockdown. DC came top of his class in SATS, so I don't think it affected his academic ability too much.

School homework is all online, but we have a computer at home DC can use for it, so there's no reason to get a smartphone or tablet.

I had MSN messenger when I was 16 which was 26 years ago and Myspace and bebo. So your timings are off there.

It is not same difference. My child building a world on Minecraft, talking us through his strategy, 3dimensional planning, rebuilding in Lego safely at home supervised by tech savvy parents is not the same as another 7 yr old in their room with a headset on playing Roblox, talking to goodness knows who. It's not the same as a child flicking through tiktok.

Thinking it's the same is a mistake made by both the zero screentime folk and the unlimited screens folk.

Till you mentioned screen time in the last sentence I was breaking my head about which medicine in tablet form might cause behavioural issues.

More to the point i do agree with you. Mine get app based homework as well. We just don't do it. I don't think it's the best way to learn, however, i doubt that kids who just do their homework on a tablet (as opposed to being hooked to some kind of endless source of entertainment) will suffer behavioural problems as a consequence. I worry more about their eye sight but then reading (or any close work) isn't great for their eyes either.

Not all babies. My son found nothing fascinating for more than 2 minutes, he'd take it, work it out, throw it and I'd keep a constant round of toys going. He'd scream anxiously the whole time when not physically touching me, he'd cry until he vomited. Where possible is gave him in a sling but if I had to put him in a pram I would occasionally give him a screen. It was a last ditch attempt but literally nothing else worked.

My daughter? Fascinated by any small toy as expected, things held her attention.

My wariness with the links between attention span from my own life is that with my son I was adamant no screens, never even had the really on, did baby sensory, read to him, flashcards, sang in several languages, baby music class, baby swim class, trips out to library etc etc and he needed this constant I put all the time, couldn't just be left on a playmate or whatever. So I have him all the traditional input. His development was amazing, physically and academicalky but he couldn't stay still or be separate from me and even eating, cooking, cleaning we're almost impossible and I'm used to babies and crying but my boy, screamed u til sick, screamed into seizures later on. Had lots of hospitalisations and wouldn't watch cartoons etc even. But when he discovered gaming? The improvements were huge. His lack of attention span is WHY he was given a screen out of desparation.

My daughter? Games, puzzles, cuddly toys, just watching the world go by, as long as she was comfy and warm she was amusable as expected with a box of wooden spoons and pinecones.

I try not to judge unless there is obvious neglect or abuse because we're all parenting the kid we got and they are not blank slates at day one.

Glad I'm not the only idiot who didn't read the post properly..no offence.

HRTWT but my first thought was tablets=medication. You mean the IT kind. As soon as the schools fully wean themselves from using online apps such as Dojo, whatsapp and any student-based access to resources then it's a lost cause.

The app crap only became a thing as a reaction to covid lockdowns and some teaching establishments and staff found it a rather easy way of appearing to impart info.

Maybe starting to access educatioal resources online as an intro to one of the many methods of gaining info at GCSE levelnis a good start; via school-based computers so no child is disadvantaged through lack of tech access.

At A-level, the ability to access academic publications online is a skill that should be taught alongside all subjects, on school-based computers as it will be vital for any student wishing to progress to uni and also helpful to those that choose different paths.

And every student should be provided with the means/technology to access online information if they attend university and not some basic tech with limitations lesser than the more well off students can afford to buy.

Therefore there is no real need nor purpose for tablets for schoolkids, it's just a parental choice to buy them - it could just as easily be jigsaw puzzles, books, sandpits, hot wheels or my top useful, favourite kids toy - Marble Mania.

@Barnbrack There is a difference between screen use and kids having access to social media

Same principle. Rapid dopamine hits, not available 20 years ago.

The thing the holier than thou no screens brigade always forget is that 1. The negative effects of screen time are for excessive and unregulated consumption. 2. Not all children are like yours. For non-verbal children, iPads can be vital communication tools. For children with SEND, screen time can be an important source of sensory regulation. For children with conditions like diabetes or epilepsy, monitoring apps can be literally lifesaving.

I agree. A baby/toddler can find literally a piece of shiny paper engaging. On a train journey I always bring small books and a couple of toys, paper, crayons. I find it sad that we are unusual in this regard. At the same time it takes effort on our part. Many parents are also addicted to screen time and an iPad gives them quiet time to scroll.

A phone/iPad is just a modern version of a dummy. The feedback loop keeps them quiet. But it’s engagement with parents and the environment that helps them develop.

Controversial opinion but I don’t understand why a parent would want a neurotypical baby/toddler to be quiet all the time (although partly it’s the massive social pressure for children to be seen and not heard on public transport and similar environments) A baby babbling is testing out and developing its language skills.

The one time my DC has watched tv on an iPad at a friend’s house they were practically climbing over each other to stare into it completely zombified. But tbf this thread has reminded me that I need try and look at my own phone even less in front of DC as we are none of us perfect!