Genuine question for anti-vaxxers

For anyone unvaccinated let me tell you about a child I saw last week in my hospital.

She was born full term. No time in NICU. Parents a bit odd and didn't get her vaccinated.

At age 3 she contacted an infection. A bad strain. She ended up in ICU as she couldn't breathe. She was then paralysed from the neck down.

She is now 12 and is still paralysed from the neck down and still has a Trachestomy in place.

I don't care what you do with your body but your child doesn't have a say and should be fully vaccinated. This child's life was destroyed by her selfish and ignorant parents.

Interesting you mentioned tetanus and the severe spasms (back arching)... ironically the antipsychotic drug that injured me caused exactly the same symptoms as part of the adverse effects it was having (it was an acute dystonic reaction and opithotonus was one if the same symptoms).

Having said that, I probably would get a tetanus vaccination as I would hate to have that symptom as part of an illness too.😳😢

It was an antipsychotic drug that injured me but I do think it is used off label for severe distress and anxiety (and mine was caused by a head injury and post concussion syndrome symptoms, which had become extremely severe over a number of months).

Technically I guess you could probably argue that the antipsychotic drug was tested for distress that is a symptom of psychosis, but i as I wasn't psychotic, it's not quite relevant 😳🤔

You are generations away from those days but I grew up in those days and children did not routinely die from measles. All children got measles when I was young and I never even heard of anyone being harmed, though there must have been some rare cases

This explains it

https://factcheck.afp.com/doc.afp.com.339C8FB

When my hospital (where I work) was giving Covid vaccinations I read up on the Pfizer one. On the data sheet it had an ingredient that stated: not for human or veterinary use.
I tried to query this at work but was basically told by my boss to ‘have the blooming thing and stop worrying about it’! I ended up having 2 Astra Zenika ones or get the sack ,but I didn’t want any because I didn’t believe they could possibly have been tested adequately.

All the diseases that are vaccinated against in UK were and could be a big deal here. Have you seen an adult who cannot walk because of polio? Seen someone die of diptheria? A person brain damaged, blind or deaf because of measles? Whooping cough kills as do most other diseases preventable by vaccination. Personally, I have a chicken pox scar in my left eye, which makes the sight quite bad.

I went to a surgeons museum in Edinburgh, great place for seeing medical equipment from throughout the ages and lots of things in jars but there were some things that never left me such as images and paintings of people wild eyed with pain and terror during a tetanus spasm that's contorting their entire bodies!
These are illnesses that you would have to be a total bastard to put your kids through whilst you sit back with your luxury protection because your parents didn't join tin foil cults! Nobody had an issue with jabs until the cult instructed them to!

I used to work near a graveyard once that I used to walk around sometimes on my lunch hour, it was a very old graveyard and had a lot of children buried in it, many graves had multiple siblings in it because the diseases swept through entire families, many adults were lucky if they lived through their 30"s! That's the dark legacy that gets left, the anti vaxxers kids that don't die in childhood could become like the people that died early in adulthood, they carry on the legacy from Granny & Grandad Anti vax and generations are born where the premature death rate is high! How do you sleep at night knowing you are volunteering your kids to vicious illnesses that you are protected from!

Even some of the milder complications are things like infertility! That's going to be a good conversation when these kids grow up passionately wanting a family & having to deal with the fact that their parents were responsible for voluntarily removing their infertility! Do these anti vaxxers think of the hate and disownment they've got coming if they voluntarily give their kids long term health issues that dog them for the rest of their life!

Your treatment was "off label". Does that mean it was not a tried and tested drug for your symptoms? If so, why was it given to you?

You really don't get that the more unvaccinated kids there are, the more prevalent these disease get? Never assume that kids today have better nutrition than a few generations back! I've seen the ultra processed crap that parents pile high at the tills for kids.
Ultimately anti vaxxers take a great risk with their kids lives and sacrifice the lives of vulnerable kids who can't be vaccinated. And not one of you saw an issue with childhood vaccines until the dumb conspiracy theorists commanded the gullible to attack every vaccine since COVID!

Take a look at this:

www.cdc.gov/measles/data-research/index.html

There have been 44 outbreaks of measles in the USA this year and 12% of them were hospitalized - presumably due to serious complications.

The problem is (in my opinion) there is a risk with absolutely every medical procedure/medicine available to us. The majority will benefit with little to no known side effects but unfortunately there will always be someone who has an adverse reaction. In medicine we have to weigh up the benefits against the potential risks.
These sometimes are not always made perfectly clear to Joe-public and we are therefore not able to make an informed decision based on ALL the facts. The last time you had a vaccination were you allowed to see the contents of the vaccine vial or relevant data sheet?? We rely heavily on the medical professional we put our trust in at the time of administration etc. I just think that people are now starting to ask more questions and not accepting the blanket statement of oh don't worry, it'll be safe.
Unfortunately people make mistakes (and believe me I've seen some whoppers in my time in practice...) and so do big Pharma.
In case people are wondering, yes I am vaccinated and so are my children

Also worth mentioning is the fact that the fewer people who vaccinate, the more these illnesses circulate, and the more they circulate, the higher the odds they will mutate into potentially more deadly forms. When that happens we are risking a scenario in which they don't respond to current vaccines or interventions.

Being satisfied now doesn't mean that one day you won't have a headstone instead of a child. These vaccines came out generations ago for good reason! The graveyards used to be full of kids in the days before vaccines.

Your children risk the lines of other kids when they pick up these horrendous illnesses and pass them to kids too vulnerable to be vaccinated! These illness won't disappear because you feel satisfied - you are taking us back to Victorian times!

Isn’t Covid recommended during pregnancy too? I got pregnant a year ago (with the wonderful baby that’s now in my arms :) ) and went and had the flu and Covid jabs a few weeks after finding out. I also had the others vacs recommended to me by midwifes. I just assumed Covid was also a risk if I caught it whilst pregnant and flu/cold season was approaching..

Waddaya think MN is if not social media???

I wonder how many anti vaxxer's are having Botox injected, the most poisoness substance known to humans. (Look it up) or are having the weight loss injections?

“If everyone stopped vaccinating, wouldn’t we start seeing diseases like polio coming back? That would mean more infant deaths and lifelong disabilities.”

Yes, in a word. Yes, all these diseases will start emerging

“From what I’ve seen, there seems to be a belief that immune systems can deal with these illnesses naturally, but I wonder if part of that belief comes from the fact that parents of today haven’t actually seen what a world without vaccines looks like. We’ve grown up in a time where infant death from preventable diseases is almost unheard of, so maybe it’s easy to forget how serious these infections really are.”

Exactly this, these people have no concept of just how severe or even deadly these ‘childhood’ illnesses can be, and think it’s just a bit of a temperature and an unpleasant rash. The current anti-vax generation has grown up shielded by the NHS, and is completely clueless.

I worked for over thirty years with children who had various disabilities. My work also encompassed supporting their families, extended families and educators. There was always another group of children on my large caseload simply because their parent/s had decided against childhood vaccinations. Sadly, the parents have lodged in my memory better than their children.

As a child, I was vaccinated against everything. All fine. I caught Covid just before being called for vaccination. Seemed to recover completely. Long Covid hit like a truck in January 2021. Been ill ever since. Currently on holiday, but still needed to go to bed this afternoon. If you've not reacted badly to the vaccination, I'd recommend you get it. Sadly, I did react badly to the last 2 vaccinations, so dr recommended I don't have any more...A difficult situation.

I thought this too. I wouldn’t be able to make a sound judgment by reading a vaccination ingredient list as I’m not a pharmacist or similar. Even if someone has appropriate qualifications, they’d need to work in the relevant speciality to use this information to make a sound critique.

It really depends where you live. If you’re based in a country like the UK where a majority of children (and adults) have been vaccinated you and your DCs will benefit from the immunity of others who got vaccinated. Childhood diseases that used to regularly kill babies and children until the mid 20th century are extremely rare thanks to mass vaccination programmes though the lower take up of mmr has led to a number of deaths in UK and Republic of Ireland. I think you need to read up on the eradication of preventable disease thanks to mass vaccination (measles, scarlet fever, polio). Look in church yards at the number of babies and children who were buried in the Victorian era 😢

Just to add that Cevarix is actually more effective than Gardasil in protecting against the two strains it offers; but the new Gardasil is effective across a wider range of 9 strains (as opposed to its initial 4) — hence the switch, as the efficacy/cost benefit analysis has shifted more in favour of Gardasil. Useful overview below for those interested:

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0090825817307746

Yes — I agree.

But I don’t think it’s a case of the health service not doing the critical thinking. When the HPV vax was introduced in the U.K. they originally used Cevarix, and it only offered protection against a couple of strains. Many doctors bought Gardasil privately for their daughters, which offered protection against four strains, but it was much more expensive than Cevarix. In the meantime, Gardasil (then a new vaccine) accrued a lot more safety and efficacy data and now protects against many more strains, so the NHS switched to it in 2012 because the efficacy data is now so conclusive. There was a lot of debate on here around it at the time. It’s quite normal for the cost/benefit/safety profile of a particular vax to change over time as new data becomes available.

The NHS in general is wary of introducing new vaccines and usually goes softly-softly, precisely because of vaccine panic/hesitancy, and the susceptibility of our population to US anti-vax material. For example, varicella has been about to be added to the vaccine schedule on and off for a long time; but each time a vaccine panic pops up they pull back on it because it’s felt that adding a new vax causes a dip in takeup for the existing ones — not good if measles is making a recurrence, for example.

They were due to add varicella the year I was pregnant with DD, but a pertussis outbreak meant they pulled it in favour of a campaign encouraging pregnant women to be revaccinated against pertussis. It’s very much felt in NHS public health that you only run one vax campaign at a time to avoid muddying the information waters, and proceed slowly with an eye to clinical data from other countries before adopting a new vax.

I was replying to the pp who stated that she wasn’t going to allow her DD to have HPV vaccine. We know that the vaccination program has made a massive difference but it hasn’t eliminated the virus. It is still very present in older generations who were not vaccinated. The flaw is the assumption that a 20 yr old man will only have sex with a 20 yr old woman.
My DSis has to go for regular cervical screening because she tested positive for HPV at 57. She’s not promiscuous but started dating after divorce.
The vaccine is given at 14 hopefully before girls become sexually active and has been available since 2008. So at best most women under 31 will be protected. Although most of us would be uncomfortable with a woman in their 30s having sex with our DS in their 20s it does happen. So cross infection is still a problem.
It’s great that vaccination is now available for both boys and girls. It would have been better if they had done the critical thinking earlier.