Genuine question for anti-vaxxers

I don't use the term 'anti vaxxer' as I think it is used as an insult by those who simply refuse to understand that people think differently to them. Some people have vaccine hesitancy which is that they are not sure about all vaccines, especially those that are new to the schedule.

Whilst vaccination is undeniably a public good that benefits society there are winners and losers in it. People very rarely want to talk about the small group who are damaged by vaccination. As to individuals it can be a more nuanced risk assessment - what is their personal risk, what is the possible cost - this is different for each person and not all information is known.

The video below is two American doctors talking about vaccination in a more open fashion and part of it discusses that the information and safety of older vaccines may need updating, but no one will research it. I agree with them that we need to actually be able to discuss this openly - vaccination is no different to any other medical procedure - consent should be informed and should not be assumed or coerced.

Sanitation and healthcare in modern times would affect outcomes from the vaccinated diseases. On the other hand our use of group childcare and UPF foods may increase negative health outcomes. There are lots more factors to consider - we have more premature and chronically ill or immune vulnerable children in our society than we did when these vaccinations began.

I don’t understand anti-vax mentality, these diseases have killed and damaged so many people, and it’s a chance to help eradicate these diseases.
my mum decided to not vaccinate me with whooping cough as a child so I got it when I was 4 and was really sick. I wasn’t vaccinated after because my mum said I was immune now … yet I ended up getting it again, and was sick for around 8 months in total. I’m now getting a whooping cough vaccine when I am able

My vaccinated children are too old for me to have much skin in this game now, but I do have some sympathy with parents who worry about the effects of vaccine to the point that they refuse them. It’s not as if vaccine damage never happens. I assume these parents choose to take the risk that their child will contract one of the illnesses and that the NHS will do what it can to treat them if they do. Illnesses that killed children 100 years ago are likely to be treated much more successfully today, so its not a totally unreasonable position to take.

@isitmyturn is right also that people have forgotten what childhood infectious diseases are like. We are 2-3 generations away from a time when people routinely died of measles and people are complacent.

What do you know about the ingredients though? What do you know about the ingredients in the medicines your child would need if they contracted an illness? Following your logic I suppose you would refuse any medications for your ill child?

You will get a range of responses from people, most of whom won’t actually identify as “antivaxxers”. Theres a whole spectrum ranging from people who claim to want to stagger the vaccine schedules up to the full fat “The government puts chips in our vaccines” people.

But to answer your question I think a lot of people have convinced themselves that because they “can’t trust government or doctors” that well established principles such as herd immunity are invalidated. They also won’t have any scientific education at all.

Essentially they don’t believe “experts”, so they don’t believe the arguments about herd immunity in the first place. Or any other scientific evidence.

I find it terrifying.

I am unvaccinated as are my children.

I come from a culture where probably 75% of people are unvaccinated. I did an awful lot of research and put a lot of consideration into my decision as I didn't want to blindly follow my culture when it came to medical choices. I looked into each individual vaccine and the ingredients it contained.

Ultimately I came to the decision not to vaccinate and my husband supported this (he was vaccinated as a child with everything except MMR).

I am very satisfied with my choice. And I'm not some moron who believes social media conspiracies which I know people will jump to, in fact I'm not even on social media at all.

I think you are right that an entire generation hasn't seen those horrible illnesses because vaccines have made them incredibly rare. I remember children at school in calipers from polio. I was very ill as a child with measles and left partially deaf.

I think covid was the start of it for the majority of anti vaxxers, although of course it was there before. Also social media.
Lots of people had covid and weren't that ill, then the vaccine came out and unlike the vaccines for measles/ polio it didn't stop people getting covid so many people were at best disappointed. I was hospitalised with covid despite two doses of vaccine. I'm vulnerable though, so will take anything I'm offered on the off chance it will help.

If you ever see a SM post promoting a vaccine the replies are so depressing. I worry for vulnerable children who no longer have the benefit of herd immunity.

I'm 100% not an antivaxxer, vaccinate all my kids, go for flu jabs, volunteered for covid trials.

This has interested me in the past so I have obsessively read things. One thing someone said (I don't have a link, it's somewhere in the depths of the internet) is that if they choose to get their child vaccinated which leads to something bad then that is entirely on them, whereas if the child gets ill and something bad happens it is the universe.

I'm paraphrasing that but it was almost by doing nothing they can't be responsible for anything bad. It's a very flawed argument but it stuck with me.

Maybe the vaccine messaging has been too good, by being honest about rare side effects etc they have opened people's eyes to risk that they previously were oblivious to.