Genuine question for anti-vaxxers

What do you know about the ingredients though? What do you know about the ingredients in the medicines your child would need if they contracted an illness? Following your logic I suppose you would refuse any medications for your ill child?

ROFL @user098786533 further to my point just above yours - which doctor on Tiktok can you point out please? I'd like to check their credentials. Not saying it would change my mind - as I mentioned, we all have our biases - but I do like to cover all bases.

Ah but @GreggWallacesTrousers you're assuming here that these people give a shit about the wider community. They do not. They're more about Sticking It To The Man (while no doubt still abiding my most other rules and regs).

you said no one qualified or educated in the medical field would be antivax but there are people who are just that who are antivax, including Wakefield, so your point is just categorically false.

The inability to recognise where you have been misinformed in the past does not contribute to your credibility.

I am unvaccinated as are my children.

I come from a culture where probably 75% of people are unvaccinated. I did an awful lot of research and put a lot of consideration into my decision as I didn't want to blindly follow my culture when it came to medical choices. I looked into each individual vaccine and the ingredients it contained.

Ultimately I came to the decision not to vaccinate and my husband supported this (he was vaccinated as a child with everything except MMR).

I am very satisfied with my choice. And I'm not some moron who believes social media conspiracies which I know people will jump to, in fact I'm not even on social media at all.

Absolutely not. Anyone dr OR not can make TikTok or write an article about what they Believe. You cannot use this as research

I am asking the for links to peer reviewed research.

I am unvaccinated as are my children.

I come from a culture where probably 75% of people are unvaccinated. I did an awful lot of research and put a lot of consideration into my decision as I didn't want to blindly follow my culture when it came to medical choices. I looked into each individual vaccine and the ingredients it contained.

Ultimately I came to the decision not to vaccinate and my husband supported this (he was vaccinated as a child with everything except MMR).

I am very satisfied with my choice. And I'm not some moron who believes social media conspiracies which I know people will jump to, in fact I'm not even on social media at all.

My children is at very minimal risk from complications from measles.

Please tell me how you know this.

They seem healthier and more resilient than their vaccinated peers, and that's the data I go on.

Please tell me how you know this.

How odd that you seem to know many people who claim their child has a vaccine injury, as many as those who are healthier than their vaccinated counterparts - which is in direct opposition to my experience. Almost like our circles of about 30-odd isn't really a representative sample, and that we all have our own biases that lead us to giving more weight to what we agree with.

And frankly the fact that you don't know of anyone that's died from measles is so lovely for you. A child died in Liverpool this year from measles - unvaccinated, by the way. It's easy to sit from your comfortable ivory tower and say that you are confident your child won't be affected - before the vaccine, 2.6 million deaths worldwide were recorded from measles. It's not a coincidence that we only see one or two a year. But that's likely to go up.

So, you concede that your original point was incorrect?

Why would you love to have vaccines that you clearly don’t need? What a weird mentality

I think part of the problem is the black and white thinking and the refusal to discuss/listen by many who advocate for vaccine uptake plus the exaggeration wrt impact of some of the diseases by vaccine zealots.

Vaccines can cause harm, as can the diseases vaccinated against. It is important to do a risk benefit analysis when deciding whether to get vaccinated. For example, I never got the flu vaccine until last year as I was at low risk and it's not terribly effective. I am now getting the flu vaccine as I'm on immuno-suppressants for an auto-immune disease triggered by covid. I have a friend who has an auto-immune disease triggered by the covid vaccine so she is reluctant to take any more vaccines. When swine flu was a thing, I didn't get the vaccine as I felt it was rushed and I was not at high risk of harm. People I know rushed out to get it because they believed the "vaccines are good" narrative and one of them now has a long term illness triggered by the vaccine.

I didn't have the MMR as it wasn't around at the time. I, and most of the children around me, had measles. It was crap but nobody I know had any severe after effects. Well nourished and healthy children are unlikely to suffer severe aftereffects from the measles so the narrative promoted by some that children were dropping dead all round the place is nonsense. Yes, in previous generations when children were malnourished and less healthy, severe impacts were more likely.

I did not have my eldest dc vaccinated until there was a local outbreak of measles. He was 4. He hadn't been vaccinated because he was born around the time Wakefield's "research" was published in one of the most reputable medical journals and I, like many others, was not willing to take the chance.

Generally, I am pro taking a considered approach to vaccines. I believe herd immunity is important but that the individual, in conjunction with their medical advisors, needs to take a considered approach as to whether it is the right course of action for them. Neither approach, taking vaccines/not taking vaccines is risk free and I think it's important to recognise that and help people to make the right decision.

No I don’t, anyone can make a TikTok/ YouTube video, write an article. They can claim anything,

Having your work peer reviewed and published means you need to provide what you are saying is true.

I could write and self publish an article today calling my self Dr Joanna smith, and stating that eating carrots causes babies to have ginger hair, does not make it true.

Your example is just one among many, as is those who I know who insist their child’s injuries post-vaccine were more longlasting.

But why am I going to say ‘okay I'll put my child at this risk’ for jabs, more than I'm going to say ‘okay I'll put my child at this risk’ when it's those saying ‘my child died from measles’

Well, firstly that second group don’t seem to exist.

My child is never going to be at risk of a vaccine injury. My children is at very minimal risk from complications from measles. By the time she is 10 she'll be at even lower risk from things like meningitis. Etc etc and so on and so forth. I have a teenager who never got sick and had no routine illness, yet was not vaccinated.

My children's health is my priority. They seem healthier and more resilient than their vaccinated peers, and that's the data I go on.

Im not an anti vaxxer but I don't have any myself because every single one sets off my arthritis and then Im in pain for months, so do anaesthetics and some medication.
I've worked in the NHS for 45 years and I'd love to have a covid and flu every year but I can't risk it. I'd be off for weeks.
I've never had either covid or flu thankfully.
Apart from arthritis which is hereditary in my family, Im very healthy.

I don't use the term 'anti vaxxer' as I think it is used as an insult by those who simply refuse to understand that people think differently to them. Some people have vaccine hesitancy which is that they are not sure about all vaccines, especially those that are new to the schedule.

Whilst vaccination is undeniably a public good that benefits society there are winners and losers in it. People very rarely want to talk about the small group who are damaged by vaccination. As to individuals it can be a more nuanced risk assessment - what is their personal risk, what is the possible cost - this is different for each person and not all information is known.

The video below is two American doctors talking about vaccination in a more open fashion and part of it discusses that the information and safety of older vaccines may need updating, but no one will research it. I agree with them that we need to actually be able to discuss this openly - vaccination is no different to any other medical procedure - consent should be informed and should not be assumed or coerced.

Sanitation and healthcare in modern times would affect outcomes from the vaccinated diseases. On the other hand our use of group childcare and UPF foods may increase negative health outcomes. There are lots more factors to consider - we have more premature and chronically ill or immune vulnerable children in our society than we did when these vaccinations began.

Do they show their qualification certificates on their tiktok posts?

A medical professional doing a tiktok (if with their degree on show) would not fill be with confidence, no.

There are lots of qualified doctors who are anti vaccine. Do you think that appearing on tiktok can change their qualification or education status?

There are lots of qualified doctors who are anti vaccine. Do you think that appearing on tiktok can change their qualification or education status?