Genuine question for anti-vaxxers

I don't know what the stats are today but at its peak in the 1800s TB killed one in seven people, from all walks of life. The wealthy did not escape.

We have family members who occasionally travel to TB risk countries, so it was deemed appropriate.

The point being: not all VPD are low risk if a healthy child contracts them.

This person hadn't offered an example of why they have rejected vaccines. This is a discussion. Who are you to decide it's the end?

Well it's not routinely vaccinated against anymore. So you're going against NHs advice there surely.

TB kills around two thirds of those infected if untreated. As antivax sentiment increases, so does the rate of drug-resistant TB. Immigration, ease of international travel, and other factors also affect transmission and risk.

Whether that constitutes low risk is something I respectfully disagree with you on. Which is why my child has been vaccinated.

but their risk of this from contact with illnesses we vaccinate for is really low.

See, this is the problem... people offer a legitimate example of why they might reject a particular vaccine... and they're immediately met with 'sassy' comments like this. How does this help anyone?

Regardless of what her concerns are, she's concerned. The End!

But you're happy to put them at risk of disability, losing limbs, sight, hearing, lung function, and death though? Even though you can prevent it?

The more and more tiktok researchers thinking like this, the risk of catching, spreading and having serious lifelong disabilities increases, so the risk will no longer be "low".

With an overall good immune system under 5% of people who come into contact with myobacterium tuberculosis ever contract active disease.

Lack of overcrowding, lack of protein deficiency, vitamin D deficiency, etc. etc. etc.

Yes vaccinated but the strain that went through nursery caused all of them to be very ill, even the unvaccinated ones. When I had CP my youngest DSis had it first, a few spots but fine, my other DSis had it next, very poorly but few spots I was last I felt fine no systemic symptoms but I was covered in spots. I had them on my palms and on the soles of my feet, on my eyes, in my mouth even under my fingernails. So it can be very variable.

The interesting thing about DS was that he had shingles when he started school as did one of the other children from nursery. It’s very rare for children to have shingles and for two of them from a very small group to have it at the same time suggests to me that it was the strain of CP that was the problem.

I think one possibility my DS had a bad dose because I had stopped BF six months beforehand and his immune system was at its lowest. So any immunity he’d acquired from me had disappeared.

He also went to a “posh” nursery where families travelled to distant places so it is possible that they had a strain not common to the Uk. It was odd how many of them ended up with complications.

Your statement about 'if everybody stopped vaccinating, wouldn't...diseases like polio come back' is probably true. Vaccines don't just protect whoever takes them, but reduces the spread, which is arguably more important.

There is a possibility that vaccines have unwanted side effects and can affect the body's immune system, but they are undoubtedly effective against the disease for which they are manufactured. As such, society can tolerate a few anti-vaxxers, because those few people have limited scope to spread the disease. Those people risk contracting the disease itself, but are immune to any unfounded side effects that the vaccine may cause. In this sense, it could be argued that anti-vaxxers are selfish, because they risk spreading the disease to the population, while protecting themselves. People who take vaccines protect society and themselves against the disease, but also accept the risk of being inflicted with the unfounded side effects.
I don't have anything against anti-vaxxers personally, in fact I think that it's good that there are a few, as they could form a control group for any side effects discovered in the future. But if too many people become anti-vaxxers, the diseases that the vaccines are designed to protect against will spread more rapidly, causing far more problems among society. It can be seen that the population benefits when most people take the vaccine, but it doesn't need everyone to take it to retain its effectiveness against spreading the disease.

No, they are epidemiologically at low risk of complications. Not because 'I say so'

Long may their luck last! Cause weirdly you don’t know they will have a terrible reaction to a preventable disease until they do!

Nearly every child has a low risk of complications from chickenpox. Zilch to do with vaccines.

(Assuming UK and not vaccinated for chickenpox)

So your source is "my child is at 0 risk from vaccine injury as they don't have the vaccine, and at low risk of complications from these illnesses because I say so".

Okey doke. Thanks for the insightful conversation.

Anti vaxxers should do some family history research.

My great, great grandparents lost two little ones to diphtheria within a week and another to TB in adulthood. Heartbreaking.

It's not. you should read my original messages.

My child remains at low risk of complication from these illnesses, and zero risk of vaccine injury.

I would like to keep it that way. That's all.

Then they are at risk of getting it in adulthood, which could cause death. What are you going to do?

In your situation I would consider the vaccine for my children.

But here we go round in circles - because what sources are you using that tell you that the risk of vaccine injury is higher than the risk of catching the disease?

I’m not referring to the poster you’re responding to, because of course I don’t know what they think about this, but I actually think maybe a lot of anti-vaccine people aren’t worried about other people‘s children / vulnerable adults anymore.

Whenever I’ve had this discussion, and have talked about the people who genuinely can’t be vaccinated, that rely on everyone else being vaccinated, people don’t seem to care. I’ve quoted a few times on threads like this about the cases where babies too young to be vaccinated have died from, for example, measles, like a recent case in LA, and very rarely get any kind of response.

PS I had three spots from chicken pox as a five year old. I didn't get MMR as I was too old when it came out - I did have rubella and mumps though. Not that I remember as I was very small then.

I remember my dad caught CP from me though. He was very, very ill indeed.

my priority is my child. I don't want to put them at risk of vaccine injury.

That's an unusually nuanced post on here.

My DC were born in the 90s. The decision on MMR was very difficult but we went ahead. IOTOH I didn't allow them to eat beef until they were about 10 (CJD).

Measles certainly caused my deafness but I guess that's not a life threatening side effect.

I took have an auto immune disease which I've had for 10 years. It's thought that virus infection of some kind is often a trigger and my rheumatologist thinks that was true in my case. Dammed if you do or don't.

One of my children hasn't even HAD chicken pox!

Check mate!

If you're in the UK, we don't routinely vaccinate for chicken pox (although that might have changed recently) so presumably you live in a wealthy enough area where parents are paying for the two vaccines separately, and then telling you that, so again, you can use this bias to form a conclusion.

For all the diseases we vaccinate against? How about polio? TB?