Genuine question for anti-vaxxers

Haven’t had my MMR as was allergic to eggs and can’t have it now due to health conditions so I need the herd immunity
the medications I inject make vaccines seem like a walk in the park TBH and the list of side effects on one of them is horrifying (black box in America and must have an EpiPen prescription with it)

To be honest, you sound as extreme as some anti-vaxers. You have your point of view and you're not willing or able to understand an opposing viewpoint. 🤷‍♀️

How does one define ‘almost died’ - serious question. I had a hangover last weekend and felt close to death, but in reality, I was probably far from it.

Yes. And people make the decision as to which risk they want to take.

I believe it's ableist to be anti vax
There's a "survival of the fittest" element to believing we should all just live alongside these illnesses and healthy people will be able to fight them off and survive. (Which isn't necessarily true but that's the belief.)
The same mentality was very prevalent during the pandemic and disabled/chronically ill people felt it deeply.

I've done some stints of healthcare work in India and 3 different African countries.

I have seen diseases kill that we vaccinate against here. Things such as polio, measles etc. Absolutely destroy families and small village communities.

Equivalent of "A&E" in a rural hospital literally sitting with a mother holding her dying child in her arms outside the hospital because it was so full at the time they wouldn't let her in. The child died, he was 5, it was a preventable disease that we don't have here with thanks to vaccinations.

I have zero doubt in my mind that vaccinations safe lives. If we didn't mass vaccinate here you wouldn't get the "herd immunity".

I have absolutely no clue why people would risk their children's lives by not vaccinating. Yes we don't have Polio here. But if no one vaccinated we might.

Horrific and unnecessary.

I was a child pre MMR. Most of us got measles. We felt pretty crap for a few weeks and then were back to normal. For most people it was not that big a deal. There were, unfortunately, a small number for whom it was a very big deal.

Most people would not even have considered death as a potential outcome from measles so were choosing the unlikely chance of their child contracting measles over the perceived higher risk of them developing autism.

And Wakefield didn't claim everyone who had the MMR developed autism, just that it was a risk.

So people were actively choosing the risk of death over the risk of autism.

Fair enough my db is a scientist data analyst who studies MRNA I suppose you lean towards who you trust?

It may not be your logic but it is a valid viewpoint. The chances of contracting measles or similar is low, the chance of a long lasting side effect are significantly lower still.

There are potentially serious side effects to all drugs, including vaccines so it's a question of deciding which is the risk you're willing to take.

Your question has been answered. Just not to your satisfaction.

I wouldn’t personally consider you an anti—vaxxer if both you and your children have had the main childhood vaccines…

I did have the Covid vaccines myself but I can understand the hesitancy in automatically accepting something for which there is less historic data, especially if also pregnant.

I do think everyone is entitled to their opinion, but relying on others or be vaccinated and being wary of something that is clearly proven to offer prevention (and I’m thinking of those illnesses for which we have plenty of historic research and data here) is a view that I find hard to understand.

It probably would.

And I really really wish that autism was caused by paracetamol, or some other really easy to stop using things. So that autism was no longer a thing. But alas it is not.

Just looking at the mother side of the optic, my DB is an ITU consultant and winter months they have their beds filled with pregnant ladies with Covid and flu - and not all mums and/or babies survive, they’re killers I’m afraid so it’s good to know both sides

I suppose I would be considered an anti vaxer? I had all my CH Vax apart from the whooping cough one as lots of kids were having issues at the time ( mid 80s) I had all of the illnesses mumps,measles, chicken pox and German measles( rubella) before I was 11 no lasting effects, That said all of my kids had all theirs even though my oldest has her mmr in the height of the controversy. My husband has had none due to an allergy ( healthiest person I know!) but he did have the oral polio when our kids did as it a live vaccine? I unfortunately did have 2 COVID vaccines which afterwards my periods were never the same and a friend died in his early 40s as a direct result 😞my daughters refused the COVID ones and my eldest who is expecting her 4th baby is refusing flu,COVID and rsv whilst pregnant, she is very concerned as they are supposed to be putting the chicken pox vax in with the mmr which she doesn't want her new baby to have ( various reasons) I completely agree with her and I know others that do won't this cause more vaccine hesitantancy? As in most people are happy to have their kids and themselves vaccinated against diseases they are aware are very dangerous but pushing others and labelling people as anti vaxers due to not wanting certain ones could cause more problems?

@user098786533 Thank you for continuing to share your thoughts. Again, I don’t share them, but can see how you feel that having a 0% risk of vaccine injury is what motivates your decision making. What I don’t quite understand is your rational that a healthy diet and breast feeding to full term is going to prevent them from contracting deadly viruses? Like you, I exclusively breastfed my children, they have a very healthy diet, we have pets and spend lots of time outdoors - these are all things that I believe help their immune system (and perhaps also helped to spare us quite as many of the common nursery bugs) but I’m not under the illusion that this alone makes their defences strong enough to fight off TB, Polio, measles etc. Nor do I think that my anecdotal experience of 1 can stand up to the wealth of research and data that shows us that vaccines give us the greatest form of prevention.

I also note that you worry that you feel that it is unconscionable for you to actively give your children something that carries a risk, however small. I wonder, though, how you would feel if your children were suffering from something that you had been strongly encouraged by medical professionals, peers - almost everyone around you - to vaccinate against but had chosen to ignore that advice. How do you weight that one up, especially given that there is overwhelmingly more advice to vaccinate than to not?

I don't think that is what people are saying. What is being said is the risk of severe complications is greatly reduced in well-nourished people who are not living in over crowded situations.

I had measles in the early 70's as did most of the neighbouring kids. None of us had long term effects. In my parents' generation, kids were much more likely to have long term effects or die. This can, at least in part, be attributed to improved nutrition and living conditions.

Because of vaccines we now see more vaccines injury than long term side effects and deaths from the disease it prevents, therefore peoples perceptions of risk get skewed.

My mother remembers deaths from polio, diphtheria and measles, I work with people who have disabilities from the same diseases. I also work with vaccine injured individuals but I've worked with 3 or 4 times more disease injured people than vaccine injured individuals. But the general adult of vaccine having aged children don't see these things, so it's really easy to forget the devastating consequences of not having vaccines.

Another child of the 60s here. I feel lucky to have survived measles, mumps and whooping cough without any lasting damage. I've known two work colleagues permanently disabled by polio (I used to help one of them out of the building and give her a lift home).

I'm so grateful that these horrible illnesses no longer pose such a threat thanks to advances in preventive medicine. It bothers me that people take this safety for granted and are prepared to compromise it for everyone else as a result of that complacency.

All vaccinations must list potential side effects, both rare and common. Everyone is different and it's inevitable that a tiny proportion of people will suffer adverse effects. But the risk of getting killed crossing a road is much higher.

Sincerest sympathies to anyone who has suffered a devastating impact on their health following a vaccine. You were really unlucky, like getting on a plane doomed to crash, but healthcare providers should not dismiss you as delusional just because it's so rare.

https://unherd.com/newsroom/the-most-vaccine-hesitant-education-group-of-all-phds/

Interesting study from Carnegie Mellon on vaccine hesitancy by education. Follows a U shaped distribution, and finds those educated to PHD level to be the most likely to be vaccine resistant, or hesitant. The next most likely group as those with the lowest education levels, but this group is more easily persuaded, the PHDs are least likely to change their mind.

I wonder why... genuinely. This is fascinating.

I agree with you but some of the answers I’m seeing here also seem to be saying they’re not worried about the diseases coming back because they think that the risk of bad side effects from actually getting them are still low. This does still blow my mind along with the lack of concern for others.