Why can’t the Israelis and Palestinians just live in peace?!!

"The day that enemies usurp part of Muslim land, Jihad becomes the individual duty of every Muslim. In face of the Jews' usurpation of Palestine, it is compulsory that the banner of Jihad be raised "

(From the Hamas Covenant 1988)

What I find interesting (but I'm not enough of an Arabic scholar to understand) is that Hamas make Jihad the duty of every Muslim when Muslim lands are threatened - yet other Muslim nations have been conspicuously absent in this conflict.

Hamas were always going to lose the war. Compared to Israel they are smaller, and weaker both financially and militarily. Israel have carried out the most horrific genocide against the Palestinians. Yet Israel could have been stopped. They may have sent money and some equipment, but if those rich Muslim nations with well funded and equipped militaries had actually sent in troops and planes, Israel could have been obliterated the way they have done to Gaza. Why has that not happened?

This is just an academic point, it doesn't mean that I support Hamas. Personally I would like to bang together the heads of both sides and I regret that there seems to be a widespread (not necessarily on MN) narrative that if you condemn one side it means you support the other.

"Looking at other wars in the region like the Iraq War weren’t Christian’s the ones doing the majority of the killing?"

Probably. The American military were Christian or at least Christian-adjacent.

Just leave the Middle East alone. It's where empires go to die. There's always a conflict going on over there. Just stop getting involved. Of course that will never happen because war makes money.

They’ve tried, Palestine keeps breaking the peace. They want all Jews to die, which is kinda problematic for Israel.

<Sigh> Don’t be so ridiculous. It never fails to amaze me how lacking in the ability to comprehend nuance and irony some MNers are! To spell it out in words of one syllable for your benefit :-

My response to a poster claiming that Israelis and Palestinians do live in peace in Israel, was to point out that yes, they may live in peace in Israel as long as those of Palestinian descent are prepared to ‘know their place’ which as far as the State of Israel is concerned is very much as second class citizens.
HTH.

And yet most of the civilians killed in the last couple of years of which a huge proportion were children or infants, were killed by Jews surely? Looking at other wars in the region like the Iraq War weren’t Christian’s the ones doing the majority of the killing? I’m not sure characterising Muslims as particularly murderous really will hold up to scrutiny.

That old chestnut again...speak out against Israel and the warmongering Netanyahu and you're branded antisemitic. Is that supposed to silence the critics?

The level of presumption about my faith is also staggering. Not all Jews are supportive of Israel. Thankfully.

And "Our means Britain"??? The British government's diplomatic position doesn't necessarily reflect the view of the population at large. While 30-ish% of British Jews support Palestine, I suspect the figure is larger among the rest of the population.

While Britain has maintained diplomatic relations with Israel it's a bit of a stretch to say "allies" given that it has also formally recognised the state of Palestine since last month.

@Myhometownistrumptonactual
proper history…. Everyone always forgets about the bit with Egypt and Jordan. And also the fact that although moderately Vocal at times they also have a border (Egypt more fortified) and have yet to do much in support (they also flooded tunnels at length)

It would be nice, and there are many organisations trying for that, but they are condemned by people on both sides who are very emotionally involved in being 'right' so are a lot of institutions and powerful people outside of the area who think there is an ideal outcome and will only accept and give resources to that outcome. A lot of that ideal outcome have to do with using a particular religious lens. though there is heavy overlap with that and just wanting control and bring 'right'.

The inhabitants of Canaan were known for their polytheistic religious practices, which included the worship of deities such as Baal, Asherah, and Molech. These practices often involved rituals that were abhorrent to the Israelites, including child sacrifice and temple prostitution. The Jews/Israelites were more civilised and monodeistic.

This rhetoric is popularly used to try to explain why a particular ideal outcome is how things should be, but it's based on very outdated understanding of Biblical scholarship.

There is no evidence of Moloch being a deity and it hasn't been considered one by most scholars since the 1930s. Most likely, it's a specific type of sacrifice, and there is evidence that the ancient Israelites did this practice. Pretty much anything specifically condemned in the Biblical texts is linked to the Israelites doing it. The Bible is fairly open that the Israelites did a lot of horrible things, including things more horrible than their neighbours and vassals.

Ba'al means lord and is used to refer to multiple gods, including the god of Israel. Ba'al the storm deity isn't involved in those practices from what we have left.

Asherah is the wife of El who sometimes is the same as YWHW and sometimes in YWHW's father. In Israeli archaeology there is evidence of her worship by ancient Israelites (YWHW and his Asherah) though there is still debate on if it means her as a goddess or particular cultic objects/place. She's only condemned in Biblical texts that were written or edited after King Josiah, who pushed for Israel to move from monolatry/Divine Council style common in the area to monotheism. King Josiah associated goddess worship with 'whoredom', but the language used around Asherah doesn't really confirm that - while some older translation use temple prostitutes for their own reasons to discuss her priestesses, there is nothing in the Hebrew to mean that and it is no longer what most scholars take the writings on it to mean. She is associated with fertility, but also motherhood and trees and different animals depending on place and time.

There is the god Chemosh, the god of the Moabs, who the Bible specifically says brought down divine wrath onto Israel (specifically divine wrath, the Bible has no issue discussing Chemosh is both divine and more powerful in his own territory), which is why they were defeated. We have the Mesha Stele potentially discussing that or a similar conflict that meant the Moabites were no longer vassalage of Israel, who is written to have oppresed them. They did do human sacrifices, though the evidence we have was it was slaughtering of defeated people to Chemosh rather than child sacrifices, not that different to what Israelites did where their conquering involved mass slaughter, only allowing virgin females to survive, and, by some writings and traditions, they were allowed one month to mourn before given away and if they still mourned after that, they were to be killed.

Many people groups have lived in the various locations we call Canaan - the borders aren't really agreed to - and ancient Israel was pretty much like the rest of them, no more or less civilised. Even if they were the most civilised, that is a very low bar and basing any desired outcomes on the groups back then is neither fair nor stable ground - as shown, many understandings of the peoples and their behaviour have changed as more evidence is found and discussed in wider groups. We can recognised there were many groups that have been in conflict in the area for centuries, but trying to claim one was better 3000 years ago isn't going to build any useful outcomes for the people today.

Apols, meant to quote @AhWeNoss here, not @scorpiogirly.

I know. I think they belong too.
Both groups are indigenous, both have a legitimate claim on the land.
They've yet to find a way to peacefully co-exist.
Opinions differ as to which group is most to blame for this.

This thread seems to be displaying pretty well why not. People with one sided opinions who don't necessarily care about finding out the truth. Just going along with what suits their pre formed judgements.

How would you feel if armed people came to your homes and made you leave? (See Israel settler violence into unlawful Palestinian areas).
With over 15000 children dead could you forgive your oppressors, the ones who took their lives?

That is what it will take.

Of course Jewish people impacted by Hamas terrorism will face the same questions, and those who were taken as hostages.

Could you forgive in either of those circumstances? A loss of a child would be especially hard and difficult to forgive.

I really, really don't think that's it at all. Historically (probably untilt the foundation of Israel) Christians have probably done us much more harm that Islam, and I think we are ideologically similar enough for that not to be an issue. One thing many fellow Jews and Muslims I talk to agree about is that there is no historical 'beef' between us really, and I think it's a common outside misconception that there is.

That’s the very point - Israel expects Palestinians to submit to them and do whatever they want, including leave homes so that more settlers can move in.

Well my post clear refers to this year alone but seeing as just as many Palestinians were displaced by Israel in one year alone in 1947-1948, I’m not sure what your response to my initial comment about this year means?

Unless by correcting me you mean 850,000 Jews were displaced by Arab countries in 2025 alone? I guess I missed that story.

Because Palestinians are Muslim and Israelis are Jewish. The two religions cannot mix. The history is deeply complex, but the gist is ideological differences are so extreme that they simply can never get along. Muslims kill each other all the time also, eg Sunni and Shi'ite factions hate each other, Muslims will kill non-Muslims and then when they're all gone, they'll turn on each other.

You could say the same thing about every conflict raging all over the planet.
Human nature is barbarian like, greedy, given the opportunities.
It is happening all over the world.

What do you mean by that? As long as the Palestinians do exactly as Israel and the US say? As long as they continue to be occupied by the Israelis? As long as they submit to being aggressively attacked on a regular basis? All of the above?
You seem to be suggesting that the Palestinians are inferior to the Israelis. Why is that?

Arabs and Jews lived alongside each other in relative peace for centuries. The creation of Israel by their wealthy sponsors has caused endless problems in more recent decades. Zionism is a relatively new concept, invented in the late 1800s.
Trump's make as much money from Palestinian land peace plan will not last.

Israelis and Palestinians do live in peace in Israel. So it can be done.

If can be done, as long as Palestinians know their place.

I think you meant to say 850,000 Jews were displaces by Arabs countries.

Because Israel want all the land and want to continue oppressing Palestinians and pandering to the far right extremists in their government.

They really didn't.

Jews and Muslims didn't ever live peacefully in that region, look back at the history there. The battle of Khaybar was right at the beginning of Islam being founded around 1500 years ago and it hasn't stopped since other then the natural brief pauses between wars.

The problem is that both sides believe that they owned the house and are now living in the crappy shed.

I agree with the first part of that sentence. However, both sides can’t, and don’t, believe they’re living in the crappy shed. The inhabitants of the house know full well they’re not in the crappy shed. Furthermore, some of them have decided they want the crappy shed back for their gardening tools.