Is not giving a child any presents for their birthday a as punishment fair?

Of course it isn’t fair it is abuse. This combined with the other information you have shared. Please genuinely report this. That child deserves better than how they are being treated.

Adults have generally learnt many more coping strategies to deal with feeling threatened which is why they don't tend to lash out.

IME behaviour can come from things they have seen/experienced because humans are social like that and learn from each other. But it can also be experimental/instinctive - Pica for example where autistic children try to eat non-food items can be related to an iron deficiency, it is unlikely to be something they have observed.

Most children probably observe bad behaviour from other children at school/in playgrounds/etc but not all of them copy it. I think children copy things to try them out, or because it seems like it is an effective strategy if they don't have effective strategies of their own. For example children with good language earlier on seem less likely to be physically aggressive - they don't need to use those strategies because they can get what they want through verbal communication.

Therefore most of the time, even if behaviour is copied or experimental, if it persists where a different behaviour is preferred, it's usually (IME/O) because they don't have sufficient development and grasp of the preferred behaviour and usually need more support with this regardless of where the unwanted behaviour has come from.

Of course if an adult is modelling the behaviour at home it makes it seem acceptable so will be more difficult to correct.

I tend to feel that the urge to lash out is instinctive (but stronger in some than others). Most toddlers do it, most adults don't, therefore some toddlers will do it even if they have literally never seen anyone do it.

Having said that, though DS was a dab hand at throwing things/biting/hitting and kicking before he started school he never punched anyone till he started Reception and I maintain he learned that from other children in his class. Also, he never swore until he moved to the PRU, and a single telling off escalated that at home but then repeated ignoring stopped it within weeks.

I do think the urge to lash out physically has to be instinctive on some level.

I can see the point that children don't learn that comments about weight are upsetting unless they have heard someone else use them in a derogatory way.

Either way though I don't think it is helpful or accurate to assume it comes from home unless you know a parent has that attitude themselves. You can't insulate a child from the world and they will hear things that adults would prefer them not to repeat.

It is strange how it is assumed this way though. I remember being sat in a meeting and asked whether my then 6yo was very close to his 16yo brother, I said not really, why, and it turned out he was repeating offensive language (around the level of "dickhead") in the local language, which I speak, but not at home and my husband doesn't speak at all. As it happens I didn't even know the words referred to because I mainly speak this language in the context of things like meetings, or socially at childcare/education pick up or at toddler groups, and people don't usually swear in those contexts.

DH noticed the next day when he dropped him off that he was getting the language from other children his age who were aware that these words were taboo and would stop saying them when they thought adults were listening. DS, whether due to his ND or his lack of language exposure, didn't have that instinctive "taboo" around them so didn't filter them and would therefore get into trouble. I had to explain to other parents that if they heard him saying something offensive, please tell me, because I wouldn't necessarily pick up on it otherwise.

Oh no, I used the wrong word 🥺

I'd never bitten my DS when he bit me. Nor had any adult hit him or thrown anything at him when he was 3 and started doing this. I can't completely promise that no child at nursery had done those but we had no report of other children throwing chairs.
Luckily we now have better methods for managing his behaviour than removing things that are days or weeks away.

@GarlicBreadStan

“I have a son who is awaiting an autism diagnosis, and I also strongly believe he has ODD and PDA profiles alongside autism.”

surely he’s waiting for an autism assessment, not a diagnosis.

Won’t even work because children with ADHD don’t respond to punishment

Nonsense. Parent of 6 Adhd/Asd/AuDhd children.

Especially not a week out. If they do have adhd they won’t be able to link the consequences with the behaviours a week after the event. Cruel. Mum (and dad if on the scene) needs to learn how to discipline adhd children in a way that links to the behaviours and is exacted immediately or it will not benefit anyone and could well exacerbate those behaviours instead of tempering them. I doubt such an approach would be understandable to even NT children, a week is a very long time in the life of a 6 year old.

Any child in school is highly likely to hear such things in the playground. It doesn't necessarily come from home.

awful for any child. Awful and ineffective for a child with adhd.

If a child has never experienced a behaviour they cannot replicate it.

Yes a child with ADHD is more likely to act on impulse but behaviours still have to be learned to be copied and replicated.

(Parent of child with Autism/ADHD)

Are you for real? That's a huge part of what adhd is!

No it’s not fair. But when you have a naughty child with SEN, there’s a lot of pressure from other parents to be seen to be giving out punishments. You see it on here all the time, lots of judgment about parents who don’t parent properly, no consequences for bad behaviour etc.

The problem with SEN DCs is that punishments or the threat thereof have no effect whatsoever on behaviour.

So maybe this mum was telling you what she thought you wanted to hear?

The child plays up because parent threatens and doesn’t follow through!

It’s not the first time I’ve heard something like this. We had a trade do some work for us after one Christmas and his (weird) wife and youngest son came along. I think he was about 7 or 8 and I asked if Santa had been good to them.

Mum replied that they didn’t have Christmas presents that year because she wanted to teach the boys the value of money…. 🤔.

I was embarrassed and the boy looked upset.

it wasn’t a matter of not having money either. Just something she decided on.

as another conversation starter, mum was reading and I enquired what book it was. Her reply was she was reading so if her children asked her anything, she would have the answer…

I have no idea what the book was.

This should’ve been dealt with immediately by the girls mother the first time her child was rude. She should have taken her daughter home before you had to decide to take your son home.

I doubt very much her intention to deny her daughter any birthday gifts. I think it’s just lip service.

That’s awful. A year of that child’s life not celebrated for one act. There would definitely be consequences but a birthday isn’t the time to do it.

OK, whatever you say.

But it's not really a consequence, it's just a punishment. A clear and logical consequence of hitting someone with a cricket bat would be not being allowed to play cricket, for example. The outcome is linked to the action. Shaving a child's head is just a bizarre punishment, the child has done something bad so they've decided to do something that they know will distress and humiliate them and this is what they've come up with. That's not a consequence, it's vengeance.

Presumably the parent(s) would explain to him the reason for their actions, and that bad behaviour has consequences

That’s awful id never take a child’s birthday away from them for their behaviour

How does having his head shaved teach him that hitting is unacceptable when the two things aren't connected in any way?

@ambergot the fact she is using ADHD as an excuse for poor behaviour says it all.

He has learned these behaviours from somewhere, usually from home or unsupervised access to the internet.

My daughter is very defiant at the moment but will get birthday presents. At the moment we have told her that she wont be having a party if her behaviour doesn't improve.