Maternity pay

I will agree with you to an extent on that because there is then a decision to make on if you plan to go ahead with the pregnancy or not which some people would choose not to.

Again, where have I said that not using contraception is the norm within my circle? I have said that we don't use it because we can't.

The fact that you work in mental health with vulnerable people is worrying when you twist people's words to suit your own narrative and gaslight them.

Of course it's planning of a sort. It is planning to have a baby whenever you happen to get pregnant. A deliberate choice.

Well, again, most responsible adults use contraception until they are ready for a baby, financially and emotionally. Then they’ll stop using it and hope a baby happens.

You were the one saying “well, not if they’ve never used contraception even from the beginning of the relationship” and claiming that that was the norm within your social circle.

It is not the norm. It is perfectly normal and standard to have protected sex with new partners, to continue to have protected sex in an established relationship and only come off the contraception when ready for a child.

Not one person on this thread has agreed with you that never using contraception in a relationship is normal. Or that having unplanned children without even talking to your husband to make sure everyone is ready is normal.

My son also refused a bottle. And a sippy cup. A normal cup. A doidy cup. Everything. What worked eventually (although not at 9 months! More like 22months when he finally weaned off me) was a costa babycino mug. Older sibling influence.

Then you simply didnt save enough. You know how much you spend a month. You know how much maternity pay is. You know what you should have saved before having a child to fund it without your partner covering you. Some people are in relationships with others who can fund all outgoings during maternity leave. Some people are not. You need to know which you are and plan accordingly.

re: the bottle. How ling have you left your baby with your partner up to now? And what does he do when baby gets hungry? Babies wont starve themselves. At 9 months baby can also have food and just have milk before and after your work. And throughout the night

No wonder mental health services in this country are in crisis if people who work within them gaslight people like this.

Astounded no? Pearl clutching is something that's reserved for MN not real life. I'm just shocked by the amount of people who claim to save for years and have a timeline for when a pregnancy will occur.

I have never once said that unplanned pregnancies don't exist. I just didn't think that people planned them to the extent that is being discussed on here

Try a sippy cup.
Two of mine wouldn't take a bottle even in the early days.

You were astounded that people would use contraception and only come off if after both partners decided to try for a baby. Said you’d never known anyone in your circle to do that and you didn’t even know that people planned for children.

Now you’re saying that you fully understand contraception and ensured your children use them to avoid unplanned pregnancies… but how can you even believe that an unplanned pregnancy exists?

For an unplanned pregnancy to exist, then planned pregnancies need to exist. But you didn’t even know that people planned pregnancies and were shocked by the idea.

We were both very aware of the fact that accidents can happen if you arent using any contraception but you don't fall pregnant each time you have unprotected sex do you. We were lucky enough to be blessed with 3 children, and both of us wouldn't have had any issues if it had been more.

As for returning to work, we were responsible adults and discussed the pros and cons of me returning full or part time in each instance. Working and motherhood is not the great trauma that MN makes it out to be. You make it work around you and your family.

The vast majority of people with children take from the state, given medical care and schooling. OP may have contributed but she'll have taken out much more than she put in.

And we're not talking about medical care which is an entirely different matter. The state doesn't support me to do DIY, or ride horse. I would pay for that, from my wages. Just as OP needs to pay for her bills, from her or her partners wages. Not from the state bill.

The state does support you to have children. By the time maternity pay runs out most people will be physically healed and most children capable of going without milk for several hours if necessary.

Where does it end? 2 years, 3 when preschool becomes beneficial, until 5 and they're in school?

At some point individual responsibility has to come into play, and in a country where family planning is possible, it absolutely should.

What do you mean symptoms - I am not describing an illness

Where am I advocating for no contraception????? I clearly said myself and my husband were unable to use it. My original point was that not everybody 'plans', some people just go with the flow and if it happens it is a blessing. I have not once said let's all raw dog and fuck the risks. You are reading what you want to read due to your own issues. I have also pointed out that 2 out of my 3 children do use contraception because they havd been educated both at home and in school about such matters. You are clearly targeting me and making ridiculous assumptions about me, my lifestyle and parenting based on your misinterpreted view of my initial comment.

You’ve got 4 children so unless you are an extremely high earner you are not a net contributor to the system.

And if you were an extremely high earner you wouldn’t be relying on stat mat pay and have no savings.

In this scenario at least one pregnancy is highly likely, so it would be prudent to save for it.

Are you seriously claiming that before and during your marriage, you have never once discussed with your husband whether you want to have children, how many, what you would each do about returning to work…?

No, I worked in mental health with very vulnerable young adults. A lot of whom had terrible upbringings and didn’t have the knowledge to protect themselves from repeating the cycle because no one taught them about contraception. I’ve seen some really terribly situations.

To see a presumably well educated and articulate adult on a public forum advocate for no contraception and no family planning is mind blowing.

Being irresponsible with birth control is planning to have a baby. If you're regularly having unprotected sex you're actively trying for a child.

Christ we teach this to teenagers.

If @JasperTheDoll has been with her husband for over 30 years and has three children rather than 12, I assume they have used contraception for most of their relationship, so no idea what the whole wide-eyed "people plan their families?" schtick is all about.

Just say you've had an unwanted pregnancy that ruined your life instead of projecting onto others. Not that I should have to share this information with you or anyone, we didn't use contraception for medical reasons which I don't need to disclose the nature of to you. My children's knowledge around contraception is none of your concern, but if it helps you sleep better at night, my 27 year old daughter is on the pill, and my 18 year old son uses condoms with his girlfriend. No need for the 6 year old to use anything yet.

If you’ve never had a discussion about number of children you both want, number of children you can afford or have the emotional availability for but you don’t use contraception then you’re irresponsible. It is not a lifestyle choice to advocate for. Lives are ruined by unplanned pregnancies (childrens and adults), so we should all be advocating for family planning and contraception use.
Thank goodness your kids will get sex education in school so they can learn about contraception.

And it would be very unusual for a woman who is a very high earner to have four young children.

You suck up having less money or you get back to work.
You are not entitled to a year off on full pay. Just because 'I want it' is not a good enough reason.

Not once have I said I expect the government to pay for it. Have I said Maternity pay provision is poor? No I haven't. I also don't like your assumptions that I am a bit of a slag with multiple sexual partners. For your information, not that you need or deserve to know. I have been with my husband from the age of 15, we are now 48. He is the only sexual partner I have had so I am not advocating unprotected sex with multiple men. Both myself and my DH are also 'reliable' adults and you thinking we aren't is irrelevant. I'm off to enjoy the day with my (unplanned) family now, you have the day you deserve!

Yes I agree, it would be better for families, babies and society for at least a year of one-to-one care by a parent to be supported. Ideally two.

So you’re 60+ with a young baby yes? Or, under 45 which is what I am assuming yes? (Unless of course you are one of the very rare cases of a pregnancy later than that)

I’m just under 45 myself, and have worked since I was 16. If I decided to not work anymore claiming I have had enough taken from me people would rightly tell me to stop being ridiculous. I haven’t even worked long enough to get enough NI credits for a full state pension in the future. If you have somehow worked far longer than that despite being a similar age or are actually 60+ with a baby then I will apologise.