to want the anti-vaxxers to explain themselves?

I once met a helicopter pilot who was a flat earther. Initially thought he was having a laugh but no, totally serious. Total fruit loop.

I don’t really believe in the flu jab. Every time I have gotten it I have been ill. When I don’t get it. I usually dont get flu. Maybe one in 5 years I get it.

So maybe if your immune comprised it makes sense. But for ordinary adult me; there’s a 20% risk of being ill vs a 100% certainty of being ill. Makes no sense.

Same. It's like flat earthers. Any explanation they give will just be a load of complete bollocks. Let them catch the flu IMO.

Population starting to question goverment / big pharma due to the poor handling of covid

I hadn’t had a period for several years as I was on the mini pill. Within a couple of days of receiving the Covid vaccine I haemorrhaged for two days, of course the haemorrhaging was due to the vaccine. I’m not against vaccines and I get the ‘flu vaccine every winter but I believe the Covid vaccine is utter poison.

Are you saying I’m lying about getting cancer?

Oh, just ignore, there's no logic. It's partly being taken in my online nonsense eg TikTok etc, partly lack of critical thinking.

So nobody can give a definitive answer to the clinical meaning of "effective " in this case?

What I don’t understand is that they clearly have a huge mistrust in doctors/NHS/pharmaceutical companies etc… but presumably if they got hit by a car or cancer or had a stroke they’d attend hospital? If their child had meningitis they’d attend hospital etc etc. So if they think the medical community is harming them intentionally or that they believe they know better than doctors, why would they accept treatment when shit hits the fan?

I was an NHS hospital doctor and the most I ever got from a pharmaceutical company was a free M&S sandwich whilst crowded in a tiny staff room on my lunch break in exchange for listening to their boring presentation.

I am partially deaf due to measles as a child. I did have the vaccine though. Didn't stop people calling my parents anti vacxerscand telling them it was their fault I had eases so badly

It was perfectly clear that she was referring to the posters who were calling people stupid idiots.

I skipped my last Covid vaccine because of everything I was seeing/reading
booked for it this year along with the flu vaccine

That makes sense! Thanks x

Most people determine what they think is true or false in really unreliable, irrational ways. If you ask someone about anything, religion, politics, health, diet etc, their reasoning almost never makes sense.

Take a classic mistake in reasoning 'my grandma smoked and lived until 90 so I'm gonna smoke too.' So the person smokes, maybe dies a decade or two early, which is sad, but the effect of that bad reasoning doesn't have a significant impact on society as a whole.

During the pandemic though suddenly you need everyone to think rationally in order to protect society as a whole, in order for the system to work.

I have a few anti-vaxxer friends and I'd talk to them sometimes during the days of the pandemic (as in an actual discussion, not a fight, I know that wouldn't help). I tried to explain how to reliably determine when something is (likely) true vs false, but none of them ever managed to change their thinking. Even a rational anti-vax argument seemed to be beyond them. For example you could say something like 'I'll take the vaccine, but not yet because it's not gone through the proper testing' and okay, I disagree, but fair enough, that's rational. Instead I'd get theories about population control, immigration (somehow), microscopic tentacle monsters in the vaccine (yes, seriously) and so on.

As I say, they're my friends, so overall I consider them good, kind people, but I'm kind of convinced nowadays that some people just don't have the mental ability to reason properly and idk really what we should do about that because there are going to be occasions again where that's going to hurt others.

So true.
I know one who is very vocally anti vax and who scoffs at us vaccinated "sheep" but who has had two breast enlargement procedures, regular botox, lip and cheek fillers, chemical face peels and who drinks, smokes and vapes heavily. Apparently, she won't allow that toxic vaccine crap in her body. She did also think that the covid jab contained computer chips though so 🤷‍♀️

I believe the antivaxers I know did have chemo with cancer (only two). Botox though? Poor example. Surely only a minority of people, pro or anti vax, get that? I don't think I've been privy to antivaxers facing the question of travel jabs. If I had to guess, I'd day they probably didn't.

You don't have to throw the baby out with the bathwater. For example, no drugs for me in childbirth, I'll have them at home without internal exams or intervention, but if something happens where there is a legitimate medical reason to have a c-section, bring it on.

I think the term anti vaxxer is used to describe those who are against all vaccinations, not those who select which to have. I would say you are a vaxxer!

Yes, this. Or if they’d take chemo drugs if they have cancer

The antivaxers I've known actually don't do those things. I don't do all vaccines (I've never had a flu jab in my life and only two Covid vaccines) and don't do those things, though I'm sensible enough to know that antibiotics do have their place, as does anesthetic. I have however known some who wouldn't do antibiotics.

All I would like to say is that there isn’t just 2 types of people, vaxxers and anti vaxxers.

Some people pick and choose what vaccines to take. I got the Covid vaccine but not the flu vaccine.

maybe I’m a semi-vaxxer 😂

Yep!

Exactly this. ^

Though of course, the anti vaxxers will say NONE of the above. 🙄

As you say, I bet some of the anti vaxxers have used weight loss jabs too. Now I wouldn't be putting THAT into my body, because no-one knows the long term effects. And it's already known that it can be detrimental to your internal organs if you over-use it.

I wouldn't be posting stuff online though, telling everyone it's poison, it's toxic, and the government are selling it to you as they want to kill you all off within 10 years.

I remember that poor tria- athlete guy. Think he was only in his forties and super fit. So he passed on the vaccine. On his deathbed he urged people to get it. But anti vaxxers aren't bothered by cases like that. Because :

He was a crisis actor
He never said that - They are making it up
It wasn't COVID that killed him

And so on forever.

And two family members of mine had the flu vaccine and still got the flu this year. That's my anecdote that is just as valid as yours, even though it is opposite. I pretty much never get the flu either and I've never had a flu vaccine in my life. I get maybe one cold a year. A flu maybe twice in the last 20 years.

I'm sorry for the loss of your parents. You must have lost them quite close together. That's rough.

Absolutely not true for both my parents. Both died of Covid pre vaccine. Both had regular annual flu vaccines, never had flu, rarely had seasonal colds.