To wonder what people actually expect and why they can’t just be happy to live simply?

I don't think it's 'special' needs, just need!

It's a great triangle though-puts things into perspective.

The real problem is that a lot of people are not getting a secure roof over their heads. The rental market is insecure - I know of so many people who have to move on a regular basis due to rent increases etc. I think a lot of young people basically despair of getting on the property ladder, have no security in the rental market and look to other things - especially holidays and experiences out of the house to compensate for the shitness of their living situation. OP is out of touch in saying people should "just be happy that they have enough to pay their mortgage pay their bills and feed their family and clothe their children?" Lots of people see a mortgage as unachievable and can't afford the family either. It is the thoughts of someone who is so privileged they don't recognise their own privilege to be honest.

Because simply paying my mortgage and bills and doing nothing else except going to work sounds incredibly boring to me.

Yes but Llandudno is 🥰

Hmm 🤔 there is living simply and then there’s living miserably.
I enjoy days at home , dog walks , cooking, sitting in the garden , reading a book.
I am happy enough with a day out at the coast in decent weather and simple but clean accommodation on a UK holiday .
However ..even that does cost and I do like a coffee out , even if it’s just to takeout with a sandwich from a bakery sat in a park or a bench somewhere.
So I say I live fairly simply but definitely not miserably .

My grandparents lived a simple life and were happy. They'd still occasionally go out for a meal with friends, or have a few days away in Llandudno, or a day out at horse races. That was it though.

My teens always want stuff though, and are very materialistic. I try to rein it in, as I hate debt.

Agree with this
People are being mentally/ financially/ socially dismantled by exploitation of vulnerability.
It's sinister

Check out
Maslows hierarchy of special needs
It's interesting and explains a lot about us as humans.

I think there's a whole range of spending patterns between living miserably and being a spendthrift.

I know people who go out to concerts/events every week, drinks out or takeaways several times a week, have hair or nails done every few weeks....but dont always have money for mundane/essential things.
Would it really be "living miserably" if they went to one concert a month, or didnt have a coffee out every day, maybe had a meal out every fortnight? You'd probably save a few hundred quid a month and still have a few treats to look forward to.

@Ohtheplaces

You have raised a very good point
Post the 2008/9 crash the tory government went hell for leather with quantative easing , they didn't not want a financial disaster on their watch.
As a result interest rates were low, credit plentiful and cheap.
People had access to credit and spending was encouraged, SM like Instagram encouraged it with lavish lifestyles being depicted on average salaries hence the rise of large cars,high end kitchens, botox, hair, nails , fillers.
Credit was easy to get, 0% offers, Klarna meant people didn't budget, they just spent.
The Dream not really

Tories also came up with H2B scheme to artificially inflate the new housing market .

Then Covid, interest rates rose massively, wage stagnation , CoL and lending rules, particularly over persistent debt were tightened.

H2B loans to be paid back, massive jump in mortgage payments, flats subject to huge rises in service charges
Student loans accruing interest

Many people have a huge amount of DEBT ,shouting for the irresponsible lenders who called it credit .
They can barely now meet their basic needs of housing,utilities, food.

Why? Because people want to live and not just exist, maybe? What a bizarre outlook.

I've been there,and not just for q short time either. Lack of money contributes to greater social isolation, having to decline invitations to social events with family / friends, continuously means you start to lose those connections. Days out (even to free museums) still costs travel and at least a drink/snack as its not always feasible to carry everything. It denies broader experiences of travel and opportunities which enhance our heritage & culture and awareness /appreciation of other cultures. Yes, a certain amount can be done more cheaply/local, but its rarely easy without allocating some money aside. Humans are intelligent beings and the need for stimulating enjoyment and experiences could be argued is as much a need as a want.

Yes. There are definitely odd attitudes to credit. I don’t know how common it is but some people also regard the credit limit as the equivalent as cash in their pocket; if it goes up they spend it and if it gets paid off they are happy to go back to the same debt quickly.

in the 70s, 80s, there was still shame about debt, and a credit card was seen as somewhat of a moral failing to live within your means. Only about ten years ago I bought a Christmas shop and an older checkout assistant smiled sympathetically and said ‘ooh it does get tight at Christmas doesn’t it?’ and I was puzzled as it took a while for me to remember that credit cards used to be for emergencies/being caught short back in the day!

I also clear my credit card every month and use it to track family spending - I know you can do this with current accounts now online/by app but back in the day when I started doing this, you couldn’t. I remember collecting 12 months of paper statements and auditing by going through tracking and categorising our spending to work out what the budget was for a house purchase. My banking app can do this for me now!

now for better or worse, debt has become more respectable. My dad used to say to me ‘never go into debt for anything other than a house or, if absolutely necessary a car’. That’s how I live and what I tell my child. As I said up thread, the choice of what you can do with 1k credit limit versus 1k of cash is vastly different. I can choose to spend my 1k cash if I wish or I can save it or invest it. With 1k credit limit,I can only spend it, which is what some people do never clearing the debt and never being able to save.

@Sally20099 having lived in Denmark the difference is chalk and cheese - so when people say it’s tough too everywhere else , it’s relative - we have too many non working people and claiming here as well - ( and I say this as a centre left voter) -

Yeah but always wanting more is not the route to happiness either. There’s something to be said for not taking things for granted and ,if not satisfied exactly, grateful for what you have even if it seems basic.

This. There’s a reason why the gap with the richest people in the world is widening exponentially. Elon Musk for instance doubled his billions in the last year alone.

I get your point however about being satisfied with simpler things, but people shouldn’t have to spend half their lives working to do this.

You must be well off and miserable.

We are the 6th largest economy in total GDP, not GDP per head. Huge difference. The GDP number is also made up of a massive 53% of total gdp by the Govt (taxes, borrowing and spending). On GDP per head, the true figure to understand wealth, we are ranked 20 - 26 in the world depending which metrics are utilised, and we are in decline.This is massively distorted by output from City of London (the square mile financial district as opposed to the wider metropolitan area). This doesn’t change your point for sure - but beware when you read / hear that we are the 6th richest country and therefore should have a different quality of life. Without growth the country will decline further because of structural costs which will increase above inflation (population age profile, welfare, unfunded govt state pensions, welfare bills and most important our very low productivity as a nation. We simply have enormous numbers of people who are inefficient at work compared to other nations in Europe and the world. Final massive thing is energy costs. With virtually the highest energy costs in the world (driven by net zero), everything is expensive and why our inflation numbers were higher than other countries and stayed high for longer)). What we have now is the quality of life standard appropriate for a country of our economic performance globally as we are a poor(ish) country with some large wealth generating areas. Get used to it unless we can change and get growth.

Perhaps it is an ongoing thing. If people are raised by parents with the same attitude of not having enough, they will grow up not knowing how to overcome the cost of living.

Some may have had parents whose prime importance lay in entertainment, holidays: enjoying themselves, at the expense of house maintenance and bills, ending in crippling debt and without the ability to repay and demonstrate they can. Charles Dickens had something like that in all his novels, as did Jane Austen, so nothing new there, is there>

I was talking to someone not long ago about credit cards. I said I paid the balance of mine off each month and never pay interest. It was a shock when they said ''Can you pay it all off? I thought you only paid the minimum payment!

That was a new one for me. I had no idea that young people thought like that. A large part of their income was going in interest payments. It isn't easy to pay the balance off each month. You have to be strong with spending for a while, and get the balance down to something you can pay with income. Not only do you not have to pay a lot of interest over the year(s), but you learn to control your budget and discover a lot of the things can be done without.

If you never max out a credit card, you have money available for emergencies - so long as you don't have too many of them.

Note to OP: I am speaking generally, please don't take the 'yous' literally.

I can’t believe this post but at the same time I feel sorry for you. Imagine tomorrow a dr tells you that you’re terminally ill? Life regrets anyone? Or more chances of being hit by a vehicle?/ crash.
this is quite a big topic that entails a lot with no wrong/right answers. People are working much harder and expect to have downtime and sometimes at home with a coffee doesn’t cut it. I looked after my grandparents, then my dad now I have a complex 2 year old. I am tired, yes I work; in STEM so I’d at least want to go on a holiday away from home country. I lost my mother when I was 2 years old I think everyday how she never got to do anything with me. Foods have chemicals, meds are expensive, climates have changed, people have become horrible & less helpful so one has to pay for everything in life because you don’t know who is who or what is what. I have been travelling for 22 years long haul and everytime it has been an enjoyable and educational experience. How are kids supposed to find their passion in life if they are home to school everyday?

Around 1900, when people started being paid fairer wages, and had regular working hours, which meant for the first time ever, the working class had leisure time, and a little pocket money to treat themselves.

I didn't say it was about spending money. PP said no one deserves to be happy, and I actually gave examples (for me) where experiencing happiness costs nothing.

Thinking that no one deserves to be happy is not a healthy way of thinking.

Everyone deserves to be happy.

As someone living with depression for years, but still making a rewarding and meaningful life, you are wrong.

It isn't 'depression' to break the link that happiness = spending money.

On the contrary, no matter how much money I spend it doesn't fix my mental health. Whereas taking the time to appreciate what I do have, every day, does help (along with the free at the point of delivery of the NHS).

I don’t think it’s entitlement as such, more that people have had to readjust their expectations for the same or more work.

and it’s painful.

Most people are having to make difficult choices which are really difficult and painful if you’re having to choose between heating and eating, or refusing a party invitation because you can’t afford to get there because you spent the money on parking to take your mum to the hospital. It’s pretty shit actually

We are well off and we baulk at the price of a box of tea bags or a box of dishwasher tablets.

There is equal pleasure in life in the simpler things. Hiking, reading, growing your own fruit and veg etc but it takes adjustment, and that’s where most people are at I think.

your post just shows your lack of empathy.

Well, we shall have to agree to disagree on that one.
Years of therapy taught me that I deserved happiness and a life worth living. Knowing that has kept me alive. Otherwise what was the point in even engaging in therapy....