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To think any "pro-Palestinian" marches today should be stopped?

197 replies

Beachtastic · 07/10/2025 09:38

Today is the second anniversary of the 7 October attacks.

Apparently "Students from London colleges are planning a joint march in the capital, while Manchester, Glasgow, Edinburgh, Bristol and Sheffield are among other cities said to be expecting protests."

In my view, the timing of these marches proves beyond doubt that they are antisemitic in nature, and there is no place for them on our streets.

Do you agree, and if so, what would you like to see happen?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c1wgx5v90vyo

UK Prime Minister Sir Keir Starmer

Keir Starmer asks students not to join protests on 7 October

The prime minister says it is "un-British" to hold pro-Palestinian protests on the second anniversary of Hamas's attacks on Israel.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c1wgx5v90vyo

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Puzzledandpissedoff · 08/10/2025 18:30

ThatLadyLady · 08/10/2025 13:32

Where does that stop? When the police start infringing on your rights? Or is it only okay when it’s the rights of people you disagree with.

I'm very mindful of the "slippery slope", ThatLadyLady, but with rights come responsibilities and I'd say avoiding the incitement of hatred is one of them ... not that doing this was ever a right in the first place

Beachtastic · 08/10/2025 14:40

ThatLadyLady · 08/10/2025 13:32

Then what do you approach it as?

Surely you can see that the actions Israel have taken have been completely disproportionate

"Surely you can see" that what happened on 7 October was rather special?

Gazan civilian mobs swarmed through the broken fences to gleefully take part (survivors describe them laughing all the time), and by all accounts took things to a level that Hamas might not originally have planned. The victims were bludgeoned to death, burned alive, mutilated, tortured, and trophies (like scalps and eyes) were taken from their bodies. Women, alive, dying, and dead, were raped while being stabbed, mutilated or shot; one had her breasts sliced off and kicked around in the dust. The perpetrators used the victims' phones to livestream this to friends and family of the victims. The attacks were celebrated joyfully in the streets of Gaza, including a well-known video of Shani Louk's mangled semi-naked corpse being paraded in the streets on the back of a truck, with the crowds rejoicing and spitting on what was left of her.

Anyone who debates the proportionality of Israel's response might want to consider how the UK would retaliate for a similar attack on our own soil.

The war is also complicated by the fact that Hamas do not wear uniforms, making it as hard as possible to differentiate them from civilians, and have spent the past 20 years investing enormous wealth into tunnels from which to destroy Israel, carefully siting its strategic centres under hospitals and schools. They have spent years bombarding Israel with missiles and carrying out as many cross-border terrorist attacks as possible.

Why do you think Israel built the Iron Dome? The reason it took a while for people to recognise the dangers at Nova Festival is that no one batted an eyelid at rocket attacks. Perfectly normal for Israelis. Imagine that at Glastonbury.

Also imagine how things would look different if Hamas had also built an Iron Dome. Or better still, if they had invested all that wealth into improving life for Gazans.

I'd have more patience with the "pro-Palestine" gatherings if they were protesting against Hamas. But they never are. Now, I wonder why that would be...? 🤔

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ThatLadyLady · 08/10/2025 13:32

Beachtastic · 08/10/2025 12:17

You cannot approach this as a purely mathematical equation.

Then what do you approach it as?

Surely you can see that the actions Israel have taken have been completely disproportionate

ThatLadyLady · 08/10/2025 13:32

Puzzledandpissedoff · 08/10/2025 12:29

I'd thought about this myself, notimagain, and would hope protesters would follow police direction - after all aren't we always told they're peaceful, lawabiding people?

If this didn't happen further enforcement measures would be a matter for the Home Secrretary, but it's well seen that ignoring lawbreaking just leads to more, so it might be better to deal with them sooner rather than later, and before this balloons still further

Where does that stop? When the police start infringing on your rights? Or is it only okay when it’s the rights of people you disagree with.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 08/10/2025 12:29

notimagain · 08/10/2025 09:21

One question that needs considering, and on the quiet probably has been considered, is if (rightly or wrongly) the Home Secretary bans a march or marches given the current mood:

1.Will the organisers comply?
2.If they don't comply, can police enforce the ban?
3.If they can't enforce it what are the consequences?

Edited

I'd thought about this myself, notimagain, and would hope protesters would follow police direction - after all aren't we always told they're peaceful, lawabiding people?

If this didn't happen further enforcement measures would be a matter for the Home Secrretary, but it's well seen that ignoring lawbreaking just leads to more, so it might be better to deal with them sooner rather than later, and before this balloons still further

Beachtastic · 08/10/2025 12:18

HappyGolmore2 · 08/10/2025 11:21

Israel have murdered Palestinian children at a rate of one an hour every day for 23 months - a conservative estimate from Save The Children puts the figure at over 20,000 dead children and over 21,000 left permanently disabled.
But we're supposed to be outraged at someone cutting down ribbons, or protesting genocide?

What do you think cutting down the ribbons represented?

To mirror PPs, do you think some lives "count more" than others?

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Beachtastic · 08/10/2025 12:17

HappyGolmore2 · 08/10/2025 11:24

I don't know why the lives of 60,000 murdered Palestinians are worth 'less' some how that 1,200 murdered Israelis, but that fucked up maths seems to be natural to many on here.

You cannot approach this as a purely mathematical equation.

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HappyGolmore2 · 08/10/2025 11:24

I don't know why the lives of 60,000 murdered Palestinians are worth 'less' some how that 1,200 murdered Israelis, but that fucked up maths seems to be natural to many on here.

HappyGolmore2 · 08/10/2025 11:21

Israel have murdered Palestinian children at a rate of one an hour every day for 23 months - a conservative estimate from Save The Children puts the figure at over 20,000 dead children and over 21,000 left permanently disabled.
But we're supposed to be outraged at someone cutting down ribbons, or protesting genocide?

Beachtastic · 08/10/2025 11:21

surprisebaby12 · 08/10/2025 11:17

That’s a ridiculous take. Do you realise Israel is choosing to kill a classroom of children in Palestine every single day? They’re killing children and pregnant women trying to get food at help points- even luring them there to kill them. 7th October was awful, but the years of atrocities committed by Israel are every single day. It’s interesting how people are quick to defend against anti-Semitism, but not against anti-Muslim attacks. Bit racist, no?

7th October was awful, but seems a bit racist to me, TBH 🤷🏻‍♀️

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surprisebaby12 · 08/10/2025 11:17

That’s a ridiculous take. Do you realise Israel is choosing to kill a classroom of children in Palestine every single day? They’re killing children and pregnant women trying to get food at help points- even luring them there to kill them. 7th October was awful, but the years of atrocities committed by Israel are every single day. It’s interesting how people are quick to defend against anti-Semitism, but not against anti-Muslim attacks. Bit racist, no?

Beachtastic · 08/10/2025 11:15

LakieLady · 08/10/2025 10:51

"Intifada" is Arabic for struggle or uprising; it's not specific to any group.

It does seem rather specific at the moment!

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LakieLady · 08/10/2025 10:53

Ihatetomatoes · 08/10/2025 06:30

Are you able to copy and paste so I. may read please,?

Sorry, MN seems not to like archive.ph links.

It's a shame, they're very useful!

LakieLady · 08/10/2025 10:51

StarlightRobot · 07/10/2025 13:34

If I understand correctly, ‘infitada’ is a reference to Palestinian terrorist acts against Jewish civilians. So the picture upthread of a ‘protester’ carrying a sign that says, ‘globalise the infitada’ is literally calling for terrorist acts against Jewish people globally. That is not a protest- it is an incitement to hate and violence. How is this being tolerated in England?

"Intifada" is Arabic for struggle or uprising; it's not specific to any group.

PurpleThistle7 · 08/10/2025 10:31

LakieLady · 08/10/2025 10:29

I would normally agree, but why does "freedom of expression" trump the rights of our tiny Jewish community to live in peace here, without constant intimidation?

Because freedom of expression is a fundamental human right and restricting it is the start of a very slippery slope. UK law provides protection from "hate" speech and hate crimes against various categories of people, including religion-based hate.

I think the balance is about right.

Well then the issue is the definition of when this becomes hate speech. And what they’ll do when it does. The answer to both at the moment is ‘never’ and ‘nothing’ so I remain terrified and my daughter is crying every single day.

LakieLady · 08/10/2025 10:29

I would normally agree, but why does "freedom of expression" trump the rights of our tiny Jewish community to live in peace here, without constant intimidation?

Because freedom of expression is a fundamental human right and restricting it is the start of a very slippery slope. UK law provides protection from "hate" speech and hate crimes against various categories of people, including religion-based hate.

I think the balance is about right.

SomeoneSomewheree · 08/10/2025 10:07

PurpleThistle7 · 08/10/2025 08:01

I actually keep wondering what would happen if that stupid flotilla had just landed. Surely Greta wouldn’t be welcomed with open arms? Hamas would tell her she needed a male guardian and to cover her hair and be quiet? And any gay, trans, etc etc people on the flotilla wouldn’t be welcomed either. What exactly do people think Hamas even is?

Your comment sounds really ignorant if I'm honest. Not all females in Gaza wear hijab. And there has been lots of female medical staff from around the globe who are not Muslim, who do not wear hijab and who do not have a 'male guardian' who work in Gaza.

PurpleThistle7 · 08/10/2025 09:59

ThatLadyLady · 08/10/2025 09:23

Israel would never allow that because of their illegal blockade.

Well of course Israel doesn’t allow boats of random people to do whatever. My musing was more ‘what if?’

what if all these protesters listening to speeches from women and waving trans flags were magically put down in the middle of Hamas terrorists? What would Greta be met with? Would Hamas be delighted to welcome their supporters? It’s interesting to think about how disjointed the protesters are from the reality of living under Hamas rule.

Beachtastic · 08/10/2025 09:26

ThatLadyLady · 08/10/2025 09:23

Israel would never allow that because of their illegal blockade.

I used to wonder why Israel had so many blockades. And then 7 Oct happened and I realised what they were up against.

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Beachtastic · 08/10/2025 09:26

notimagain · 08/10/2025 09:21

One question that needs considering, and on the quiet probably has been considered, is if (rightly or wrongly) the Home Secretary bans a march or marches given the current mood:

1.Will the organisers comply?
2.If they don't comply, can police enforce the ban?
3.If they can't enforce it what are the consequences?

Edited

Yes, you are right.

I'm sure a lot of things are being considered "on the quiet" and there is little anyone can do. But I wish Starmer had been more explicit than just "un-British."

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ThatLadyLady · 08/10/2025 09:23

PurpleThistle7 · 08/10/2025 08:01

I actually keep wondering what would happen if that stupid flotilla had just landed. Surely Greta wouldn’t be welcomed with open arms? Hamas would tell her she needed a male guardian and to cover her hair and be quiet? And any gay, trans, etc etc people on the flotilla wouldn’t be welcomed either. What exactly do people think Hamas even is?

Israel would never allow that because of their illegal blockade.

notimagain · 08/10/2025 09:21

One question that needs considering, and on the quiet probably has been considered, is if (rightly or wrongly) the Home Secretary bans a march or marches given the current mood:

1.Will the organisers comply?
2.If they don't comply, can police enforce the ban?
3.If they can't enforce it what are the consequences?

Beachtastic · 08/10/2025 08:58

Ihatetomatoes · 08/10/2025 06:30

Are you able to copy and paste so I. may read please,?

Sorry - I didn't realise it was behind a paywall. In fact, I didn't realise I must have an online subscription to The Independent!

It's a L-O-N-G but excellent article, and among other things explains the "tea and cakes" meeting by Goldsmiths for Palestine in the Feminist Library. Also includes mind-numbing snippets like Students at the university (UCL) initiated “apartheid-free zones” to ban Jewish students. You couldn't make this stuff up 🤡

“It feels like it is a discourse that has become completely normalised, with more and more sit-ins and ‘occupations’ for Palestine,” says Professor David Hirsh, who looks at contemporary antisemitism in academic settings. “This new antisemitism not only allows people to hate the overwhelming majority of Jews, but says they are right to do it.”

@User37482 I think the problem is that a lot of people don't realise what they are supporting when they parade with these slogans. And then they wonder why the Jewish population is fearful. To be honest, I'm not Jewish and I am also scared by the way people have so easily been manipulated into (unwittingly) serving a terrorist agenda here in the UK. Of course, there have always been fringe loonies who do that kind of thing deliberately. But to see whole swathes of the population caught up in flag-waving and chanting, blissfully unaware of how these rallies began and whose purpose they serve, is grim. For decades, we've wondered how the German people got so swept away in the 1930s... well, now we know. This is how it happens.

ARTICLE:
At the University of Liverpool, a student group was busy planning what appeared to be a celebratory “Palestine bake sale”. The poster, adorned in the red, black and green of the Palestinian flag, was made to promote the event on 7 October – titled “Time for Dessert”.

A group called Goldsmiths for Palestine will host a night of “remembrance and resistance” in The Feminist Library, away from campus. There will be a film as well as tea and cakes. Groups at other UoL sites, including King’s College London and the London School of Economics, will be organising a 2pm walkout. In Edinburgh, there will be a rally outside the library under the slogan “Divestment today, liberation tomorrow”.

On the anniversary of a massacre in which more Jews were killed than on any other day since the Holocaust, many students will not be lending their support to the Jewish community. They won’t be holding a vigil. Their events feel closer to celebrations. At least in the case of the bake sale, the organisers finally “agreed to move this fundraising activity to an alternative date, following an intervention by Jewish News”.

On Monday, Keir Starmer condemned the students planning protests on the anniversary of the atrocities committed by Hamas on 7 October 2023. He wrote in The Times: “It’s un-British to have so little respect for others. And that’s before some of them decide to start chanting hatred towards Jewish people all over again.”

But this state of affairs has been two years in the making, and similar protests have taken place across the UK during that time. Ruth Deech, a crossbench peer and a former principal of St Anne’s College, Oxford, said: “As a new academic year begins at British universities, it is painfully clear that authorities have failed to tackle extremist events and ideology on campus.

“The tragic events in Manchester have shown us what can happen when such hateful, violent rhetoric is normalised, and it is now incumbent on university leaders to enforce a zero-tolerance policy to ensure the safety of its frightened Jewish students.”

Ah yes, remember them? The Jewish students – a minority on any British university campus. Jewish students who routinely hide symbols of their faith, in constant fear of attack; of being harangued, abused and “punished” for the decisions of the Israeli government.

Abi Hass, who runs Sheffield University’s Jewish Society, tried to speak up against the “student rally for Palestine” that is due to take place on Sheffield’s main student union concourse. “I have become extremely used to people’s ignorance and casual antisemitism,” she says of her university experience, which she has described as “nevertheless enjoyable”.

But things have been difficult in the lead-up to the second anniversary of the 7 October massacre, which sparked the war that has so far led to the deaths of an estimated 66,000 people in Gaza – civilians and terrorists.

“In the last couple of weeks, the student union contacted me to see if I would be open to discussing with the Communist Society to see if I could change their minds on the date of a rally they were organising. I agreed, as I felt that maybe hearing the side of actual students could help them sympathise.

“Jewish students may know family and friends who were murdered or taken hostage, but I was simply told that the date was irrelevant, the rallies were welcoming spaces for Jewish students too, and it was impossible to change the date because all the posters and flyers had been sent out.

“The student union even offered to reprint the posters so they wouldn’t lose any money, but they refused.”

Universities are aware that the rallies are seen as insensitive, but many students feel that not enough is being done to challenge the groups who are creating an atmosphere that allows this sort of protest to thrive.

The University of Edinburgh, for example, put out a statement saying: “Our community should not attempt to justify or glorify acts of gratuitous violence against innocents. It is important that anyone participating in demonstrations against what is happening in Gaza does not fall into this trap.” Yet according to one Edinburgh student, a main university building recently had posters displayed in the window that read “We want 1948” – an expression, they explain, of a desire to eradicate the state of Israel.

Shadow justice secretary Robert Jenrick made a last-minute plea for the rallies to be banned. “University chancellors need to stamp out the virulently anti-Jewish hatred running amok on their campuses,” he said. “These groups are showing their true colours by holding rallies celebrating their heroes in Hamas two years on from the sickening murder of 1,200 people in what was the worst single massacre of Jews since the Nazi Holocaust. Any student attending ought to be kicked off their courses.”

But for most Jewish students who have attended a British university in the past two years, this is nothing unusual. They have become cesspits of hatred since the attacks were carried out. One Jewish student, Rose* – who this year moved to an American university in Florida to escape the antisemitism – described what happened to her at UCL within days of the 7 October attack. “Brainwashed Zionist genocide supporter,” whispered one of her classmates after a lecture. That was just the start of a campaign of horrendous bullying.

People shouted “psychopathic” and “genocidal” at her as she walked across campus. People pointed and said: “That’s her, that’s the Zionist.” Her photo was taken and circulated among pro-Palestine WhatsApp groups, who were concerned that she would try to infiltrate them.

Students at the university initiated “apartheid-free zones” to ban Jewish students. Once, when Rose was on a bus on the way home from a nightclub, talk turned to the war, and a crowd aggressively started shouting at her, “We are anti-genocidal.” She had been told that people who compared Israel’s stance on gay rights with that of other countries in the Middle East were guilty of Islamophobia.

Ironically, the person who has been most sympathetic towards Rose is her Palestinian flatmate – because most of the people screaming pro-Hamas chants and demanding the globalisation of the intifada don’t understand that these things harm Palestinians, too.

While legitimate protest is a basic human right, and many Jewish people support the calls for a ceasefire and an end to the war in Gaza – especially now there is peace plan in place –what some Jewish students have found is that too often they are held accountable for the actions of the IDF, by people who are parroting anti-Israel rhetoric that frequently mirrors much older antisemitic tropes.

“We are walking on eggshells, wondering if there will be more hatred to come,” says Nick*, a mature student doing a master’s at the University of Manchester.
“There is this feeling in your stomach, a sickening feeling, because you never truly feel safe. I try to avoid campus, but if I do go in, I hide my Magen David [star of David] necklace and then feel angry that I feel I have to hide it.”

For British Jews like David, universities have often felt like the front line of what is known as “new antisemitism”.

Throughout the 1980s and 90s, various groups tried to ban Jewish societies at universities because their members were Zionists (around 80 per cent of British Jews believe that the state of Israel should exist), and, in their parlance – paraphrasing a UN resolution that was later rescinded – “Zionism is racism”.

“People are afraid to show any signs that they are Jewish,” says Natasha, a psychology student at the University of Birmingham – where the Jewish Society, numbering 1,000, represents one of the biggest Jewish student bodies in the country. “I heard about one incident where a guy who had a kippah on was shouted at for ‘supporting genocide’.”

She adds: “There was an Israeli flag left outside a Jewish flat, with non-kosher food left on top of it. The aim is to say ‘We know where you live’ and to make Jewish students feel unsafe and intimidated.”

At Birmingham, an Islam Week hosted on campus in February last year sparked more tension. “There was a big tent in the middle of the campus with some really interesting stands, and it was all going fine until suddenly it wasn’t,” recalls Natasha. “There was a demonstration that turned nasty; visibly Jewish people who walked past were heckled [by people saying] things like ‘Israelis should burn in hell’.”

Rachel is another Jewish student. She is both pro-Palestine and pro-Israel, and has joined marches against the war. But as someone who believes the state of Israel has the right to exist, she struggles with slogans like “From the river to the sea” and “Intifada everywhere”.

“An intifada is a call for the perpetuation of violence, which is the fundamental thing I want to stop,” she says. “The hardest thing [about] being a Jewish person like me since 7 October is feeling like you are straddling the fence, and like you don’t belong in either party. You are not welcome.”

The hostile atmosphere can extend to lectures, too – even if the Israel-Palestine conflict has nothing to do with a teacher’s subject. While debate and discussion should be welcomed in any academic setting, for many Jewish students it has often felt one-sided, or that it was done in an insensitive way.

One Jewish student I spoke to was asked by a drama teacher, shortly after 7 October, to imagine themselves as “part of the Palestinian resistance”. Other examples reported to me by students include a psychology lecturer asking students to consider whether the Stanford Prison experiment was “something like the genocide going on in Gaza”; a history teacher including on a reading list a book that claimed Israelis harvested the organs of Palestinians; an American studies tutor asking students, shortly after the 7 October attack, to debate whether what had happened on that day was “justifiable resistance”; a geography lecturer pointing to a map of Israel and calling it Palestine; and an African Studies lecturer claiming that Israel had deliberately “destabilised” the continent.

“It feels like it is a discourse that has become completely normalised, with more and more sit-ins and ‘occupations’ for Palestine,” says Professor David Hirsh, who looks at contemporary antisemitism in academic settings. “This new antisemitism not only allows people to hate the overwhelming majority of Jews, but says they are right to do it.”

Starmer wrote in his column in The Times, which followed the murderous attack on a synagogue last week, that more needs to be done to stop antisemitism, saying: “Driving antisemitism out of our society is a challenge for our whole country. Everyone must play their part. It will not be solved with quick fixes but with painstaking partnership work across communities, faiths, in schools, hospitals and workplaces, in every part of our country and every part of our society.”

For the Jewish students who have felt ignored, abandoned and under attack for the last two years, that work needs to start on campuses today. Many are tired of words and no action.

To think any "pro-Palestinian" marches today should be stopped?
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PurpleThistle7 · 08/10/2025 08:01

I actually keep wondering what would happen if that stupid flotilla had just landed. Surely Greta wouldn’t be welcomed with open arms? Hamas would tell her she needed a male guardian and to cover her hair and be quiet? And any gay, trans, etc etc people on the flotilla wouldn’t be welcomed either. What exactly do people think Hamas even is?

User37482 · 08/10/2025 06:37

It’s a difficult one, clearly these protests on this day are celebrating a terrorist attack where a thousand people were murdered and thats frankly foul. I think anyone shouting globalise the infitada or displaying support for a terrorist organisation should be arrested and charged. There is a problem with the limits of free speech here. I mean would we allow people to hold a protest on 7/7 basically celebrating it? If we wouldn’t why should we allow this to go ahead.

I don’t understand why so many dumbasses support this shit, I don’t think they get that Hamas is an offshoot of the muslim brotherhood and financed by Iran and most of these idiots would be on the receiving end of an intifada. Also I’m not sure celebrating the day that resulted in the devastation of Gaza is very pro Palestinian tbh. I have a friend with family in Gaza, it’s fucking horrific for them. I think many of these people are just very very stupid tbh.

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