A double one on Rugby

WHAT are your own children allowed to do exactly? out of curiosity?

I hope you are homeschooling, because the most dangerous environment I have ever witnessed is the school run and parents driving and parking like lunatics. Made even worst with SUV and little children.

It's a daily miracle we don't have more casualties across the country.

literally the reason why MN and others are promoting rugby, to fight against these.. attitude.

Clearly needed!

My DC (DS and DD) both play and have since they were 4- now in U15/U14. I agree it's not without risks but at population level I think the worst in behind us in terms of longer term injuries from the sport because (i) fewer people play (ii) massive reduction in how many contact minutes are allowed in training all the way through to pro level, (iii) changes to tackling rules that prevent dump tackling and neck issues (iv) much stricter application of concussion recovery protocols and (v) shorter playing "careers" in general - I read recently that the number of men in their late thirties/forties who still play recreationally has fallen considerably. That will be somewhat be offset by the way that male professional rugby is played (player size has increased hugely, men's rugby is more forwards dominated than it was) but pro rugby is not gonna be something my DS is going to get close to so not a personal concern. Therefore my expectation would be that the kids who are currently roughly between 8-21 will have much lower impacts that those who are older than that now

There are also so many positives, some of which are obviously also present in other sports but I do think rugby has an inclusivity and a nicer vibe than some others and I agree with PP that for teenage girls this can be extremely positive. A lot of the girls who have joined DD's club have really found their tribe there and they have such a brilliant time.

Neither has had concussion from rugby but, just for the sake of anecdata:

Times DS has got concussion - playing hockey and accidentally collided with the keeper (basically got head butted), got a cricket ball to the face because not concentrating while fielding, got elbowed in the temple playing "park" football with his mates.

Times DD got concussion - hit round head with boom while sailing, whacked herself on the head with her snowboard while getting it off the roof of the car (had obviously been told three times not to attempt this).

Whereas saying that girls who play football and rugby on mixed teams aren’t REAL girls and must actually be trans is perfectly fine…

Thank you! I know- such a bizarre attitude and a damaging one too! I was astonished by the leap!

The physical & psychological risks of children growing up sedentary, unfit, screen-obsessed, socially isolated & obese are FAR greater than the risks of them playing team sports, including those which involve contact.

Rugby has cracked down on head contact at all levels in recent years, with major changes to tackling laws. The changes were much needed & long overdue, but they have now been made. Of course it still involves some level of risk but so does anything. Including inactivity.

If I could heart this I would. How they came to the conclusion your daughter was trans just because she plays rugby i don't know (and it's really weird to assume that).

She must think the whole of the Red Rose's are trans as well (nevermind that some are married with kids).

Rugby is especially inclusive because it welcomes all body types and has various roles who need various strengths.

It's a lot less damaging that gymnastics or ballet (just as an example) who famously badly damaged mental health of so many girls with the effect we know.

You don't have to like rugby, but you are ridiculous to demand a ban. Just don't put your kids in a school where it's part of the curriculum.

That’s quite the leap. No I am not like a mother of a trans child? my daughter isn’t trans because she plays rugby.

the team is mixed and she is the only girl. The boys aren’t ‘forced’ to play with her. She’s allowed to play mixed until she’s in high school. Their physical stature at the age of 9 is very similar. The boys are her friends and they don’t treat her any differently- they’re clearly way more accepting than you are.

my daughter also plays netball and dances.

i am not letting her down massively for letting her play a sport she loves. I doubt she’s going to become a professional rugby player. The children play together safely and with a lot of supervision. She’s happy and safe and loves it and will continue to be allowed to go.

how odd you would link a little girl playing rugby with her friends to being a trans child. That’s a really sad attitude to have.

This

I withdrew mine from Rugby at school after watching a few matches. Their brains aren't matured and are vulnerable to injury.

You can tell it will be a huge health scandal in years to come.

We come from a big rugby nation but personally know so many young people who have sustained serious injuries from rugby, some life changing m, that we haven’t allowed our DCs to play it.

I stand by what I said. It is poor taste to use Lewis Moody's MND diagnosis for your own personal crusade.

Many of these players Rob Burrow, Doddie Weir and now Lewis Moody all played rugby long before all the research into concussion and head injuries. The sport and science has changed since they played, they are no longer allowed to continue to play if they get a head injury, high tackles are a red card.

Use it to bring awareness to MND but to use it because you don't like something is in poor taste.

P.S cars kill shall we ban them as well?

From my personal experience I actually think that rugby as a sport is especially beneficial to young girls (possibly even more so than boys).

Teenage girls are under incredible pressure from social media and their peers to look a certain way to act a certain way- to be the "popular girl".

The core values of rugby are Teamwork, Respect, Enjoyment, Discipline and Sportsmanship.

Just taking some of these, girls rugby is massively social able, much more than the boys rugby- you only have to look at the joking around and laughs of the England team. Thats not to say they don't take it seriously but that they have so much fun in doing so.

Respect - girls are judged on whether they do their job on the pitch and look after their teammates. If a girl doesn't put the effort in then another girl has to which means she is more likely to get hurt.

Or more simply the girls really don't give a crap who you are dating, where you live, your skin colour, who your friends are etc etc . All they care about is that their teammates put the effort in which that stops or reduce the chances of the other girls being hurt.

It reduces the chances of girls being bullied at school - because the girls are incredibly loyal to their teammates (much more than the boys). And let's be honest you would have to be a special level of stupid to pick on one of the rugby girls at school.

Rugby as a sport is for girls of all shapes and sizes- your bigger girls for the forwards and skinny fast girls for the backs. They are all equally valued with a different job for different sized / skilled girls.

Teamwork- many sports favoured by girls tend to be individual sports (horse riding, swimming, tennis etc) because of the element of physical risk rugby creates a bonding amongst the girls far greater than other team sports.

So yes there is a physical risk to girls playing rugby but in my experience the benefits outweigh the risks.

Came here to say this. It isn't rugby specifically, it is intense sport that increases risks. And multifactorial.

I have another two older DC who participate in fencing which is low contact. They are not interested in contact sports like rugby

As long as risks are discussed I don't see a problem.

Can vouch for this. My youngest two play rugby and it's all about safety. Constant reminders re: gum shields. If you don't have it, you're not participating. And not aware of any head injuries at mini level.

Life kills OP - the only way to avoid death is to never live

the question is at what level of risk is appropriate?
and that’s personal - people deserve facts so they can make choices

being fat kills
drinking alcohol kills
getting in a car kills
sitting around all day kills
meat kills

I'm not sure that there's currently sufficient evidence to support the kind of restrictions you're suggesting OP but I do understand your concerns and I certainly didn't encourage my DC to play any more rugby beyond that which was mandatory at school. (Or an other sports where repeated head injury is a feature come to that. I would never have allowed them to do boxing under any circumstances.)
Obviously there are risks in all sports. I sail and have been concussed after being bashed on the head by the boom. All my DC also do or have done sports that carry a risk of acute injury. And freak accidents can and do occur in all walks of life. We cannot live risk free lives and attempting to do so would be totally miserable. But the difference is that whilst I know every time I go sailing I could get hit on the head by the boom, and every time my DS plays hockey he could be brain injured by a stick or ball most times that won't happen. But when you play rugby you know that you will be making repeated vigorous physical contact with other people as that* *is an intrinsic part of the sport.

I agree that rugby, and sport in general, has made big strides in the recognition and management of brain injuries. I think that just about every sport's governing body in this country has a concussion protocol now which is excellent. But that only gets triggered once a player is showing some signs of a brain injury. What it doesn't address is the cumulative effect of repeated micro trauma. Some sports, rugby included, involve a lot of bashing of heads which don't manifest as an actual brain injury at the time but the repeated effect may well be damaging over time. It's that which I think is still a big worry and I hope we'll find out a lot more in the coming years.
That's the difference between contact sports like rugby and a lot of the other situations people are mentioning. Yes, you might get a significant brain injury if you fall off your bike, crash your car, slip down the stairs etc but on all the occasions that you do those things and don't have an accident you suffer zero trauma to your brain. But the nature of some sports means that not only is acute brain injury is more likely than in others but also repeated micro trauma is pretty much inevitable. The potential effect of all those low level impacts concerns me a lot. Obviously there are lots of physical and mental benefits to participation in sport too and you have to weigh those against the risks. But my personal opinion is that there are lots of great sports and activities that you can do that don't have that particular risk (though of course they all have some) so I encouraged my own children in different directions. But that is my personal view and whilst I'd encourage people to think about it I wouldn't go as far as saying that nobody should allow their children to play rugby - I don't think there's currently enough evidence for that.

But MND is correlated to all types of athletes, football players, athletics and obsessive gym goers.

And on that basis the promotion of all sports, athletics and gym going is "f'ing evil."

"The MND Association acknowledges there is a "correlation" between contact sports and MND. It added that while the athletes studied were more likely to develop MND, it did not show the sports directly caused the condition."

The reality as with all things including exercise is "everything in moderation".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-57431412?app-referrer=deep-link

Pretty much all sport carries risk of injury or long term disability. Unless you are talking about snooker or darts. That said I doubt whether leaning over a table for half your life does your back any good.

People tend to minimise the risks of sports they like and don't want to consider the risks. Try arguing about the dangers of horseriding on this site.

If you stop all sport your risk of injury will be low, but you will not get the enjoyment of playing sport aggressively and competitively during your youth, when it is the only time you can really do it.