Urgent advice - dire family issues

I would contact Adult Social services as well - you generally have to pay for it but they will at least come and do an assessment and there are lots of things they can do like key safes, handles and other household equipment to help. You do need to be clear what her needs are so the carers are told what they need to do - they shld be doing hot drinks and heating meals - not cooking tho hence the mention of those M&S Meals. They did clean separately to care so cleaner came once a week and then carers every day. MIL was as bright as a button mentally and one carer she got on with would bring her free papers and such to keep her busy outside of TV. She had been in service in her youth over in Ireland so kept a sharp eye on them with what they were doing/did/didn't do so she managed them fine. She was v self consious about having them though and I do think that for the money that was paid it wasn't good value as the agency took their cut as did the council!

I have dealt with two lots of elderly parents one with my siblings which was extremely difficult as needs were high, even tho there were 6 of us. the actualy caring was left to the girls/women altho to be fair the others provided financial assistance to some extent and the youngest did chores Dad cld no longer do or organised someone else to do.

I think what older folk cope with better is if you downplay the role of the carer - so we know they are carers as do they but you might call them a cleaner or a "daily" just to help out - they maybe come to help up in the am, bit of breakfast and leave some lunch in the fridge then back in the evening some tea and bedtime if needed. But it could start with a bit of cleaning, leaving a meal and a sit and natter over a cup of tea and a biscuit mid am or pm then as needs escalate you can say something like - shall we ask xyz if she can do a bit more for you, she might have the time. At which point they are not a stranger. You might also need to be in the background for the first few visits till they are familiar. I had a very elderly MIL and this is how we did it originally although it didn't go on long as it took me so long to persuade her and the carers we used from the council carers weren't very committed she fell and wasn't found when she should have been then hospital and passed away shortly after. Also be aware that if you go for an agency it won't always be the same person.

I think also you need to ask DH if he could do evenings once or twice a week to allow you to go over for your Granny its only going to be relatively short term and its a good opportunity for him to step up and be a parent twice a week. You can always double up cooking on your evenings if that is an issue.

M&S do good small one person proper meals although the selection isn't huge. I found them alot better than other supermarkets

The things MIL struggled with were being warm in bed (we got her a new electric blanket as hers was lethal and at least 30 yrs old), changing the bed and remaking it, and the washing and drying.

Check out she has everything to be safe in the bathroom as well - hand rails and stools and chairs etc. Maybe arrange to have baths or showers when you are in the house so if anything happens you are there. This was one of MIL fears so she wasn't washing properly. She had been brought up in a convent as well so there was a massive issue around others helping - we got round this with a thin nighty she wore in the bath and was able to take off herself when sat in the bathroom to dry and then put a fresh one on etc.

Anyway - do what you can and don't let your Mum guilt you, if you are doing what you can then you are doing enough

OP are you actually concerned that your grandmother is being neglected or is it just that they argue and don't really get on? You say your grandmother is confused - does she have a diagnosis of dementia or is this something that you need to raise with the GP? Is she actually capable of washing/dressing/personal care without any help? If not, I would definitely contact adult social care and ask for an assessment of her needs.

Obviously your mum's drinking is unpleasant and difficult for you and probably your grandmother to be around. If you're concerned that she is actually abusive towards your grandmother, that is something you need to raise with social services. If it's just a case of them arguing and not getting along, I'm not sure there's much you can do about that. I would tell mum you won't be responding to drunken late night calls again and stick to it.

This is absolutely the best action you can take in these circumstances.
OP with your update I feel
so sorry for you, I can’t imagine how it must be growing up as the DC of an alcoholic. It sounds like your DMs drinking is bringing back painful memories as you want her to be the adult in this situation.

Thing is it sounds like she is doing as much as she is capable of - probably too much if she has started drinking again. It’s really hard to care for a parent particularly if they are no longer rational in their demands or decisions.

Therefore somebody has to make the sensible decisions here for the benefit of everyone. That doesn’t mean you taking on more responsibilities, it means involving a third party and telling them what’s going on.

There is a chance they may come and decide not to do anything. The bar is very low for demonstrating capacity and if your DGM has a strong desire to stay at home, then the horrible current situation may continue.

I know it must be almost impossible for you but try to have some compassion for your DM. If there is an Al Anon group she goes to, encourage her to go even if that means DGM gets less visits.

I am sorry for you all, there’s no great ending to this situation.

Does anyone have LPA for your gran? There are two types, financial and health, does anyone have either/both?

It sounds as if your gran has dementia, she is confused, needs daily help from your mum, and is 'accusing her of things'. If someone has dementia, accusing a close relative of doing something like stealing is very common.

Your mother understandably finds it difficult to deal with, so she drinks and then she cannot control the situation at all, and you have no idea if what she is saying is true. So you have two people telling incoherent unreliable stories.

And there is little you can do about it really. You can ask Adult Social Services to do a care assessment, but if your gran refuses to see them, or tells them she's fine with the current arrangement, they won't force it. Unfortunately you may have to wait until the situation deteriorates so much that intervention is inevitable, e.g. your gran has another fall and is hospitalised.

I'm sorry you're having to deal with this, it's so hard.

You have my sympathies OP, it’s really difficult. I went down the rabbit hole of trying to help my DM with my DGM (she’s not an alcoholic, just lazy and selfish) and DM and I no longer speak. Regardless of my circumstance (even when I was extremely unwell in hospital) the demands kept coming. Do what you can without sacrificing too much of your sanity/ time, but I’d maintain very firm boundaries or you may end up being expected to do everything.

Could your grandma stay with you for company at all? At that age she might not be doing much more than sitting on the sofa with the telly on and just wants people around her.

Unfortunately if she won’t accept she needs more help, you have to let her get on with it. As someone else said, they are adults.

Oh and I honestly think you are well within your rights to take a step back and let them get on with it, but obviously that’s hard when you’re being guilt tripped by your mum and getting urgent phone calls from her. Families can be messy. I know ours is.

That sounds like a horribly stressful situation. You do keep saying that your mum won’t stop drinking, but she can’t and you have to accept that. A mentally unwell woman is caring for an elderly woman who sounds as though she may be in the early stages of dementia. Obviously I can’t know that for sure, but you have mentioned confusion a number of times and possibly forgetfulness. It’s quite possible that your grandmother did attack your mum that time, but their stories were different because she couldn’t remember. My mum had Alzheimer’s and I cared for her while looking after 2 small children, so I know how absolutely awful and draining it is. Once, I saw her fall while I spoke to her by video phone, but when I rushed down to her house, which took about 20 minutes, she was sitting on the sofa smiling away, with no memory of falling. Dementia definitely adds an extra layer of complexity and in my experience can make the person even more determined not to accept outside help. I know it’s illogical, but if they were in their right mind they might recognise their limitations. I agree with other posters that your grandmother needs a full assessment by social services. My mum accepted some help when someone official looking told her she needed it. She honestly thought she was doing everything herself and had no real concept of how much I was propping her up. She was physically very robust and honestly thought she was doing all her own shopping and cooking and cleaning herself!

Why does your gran have to go round to your mums? I’d be encouraging her to stay at home with carers and then your mum pops into her to support when she can.

It sounds like you might be afraid that something might escalate between them? Let social services know when you ask for the assessment for your gran that your mum might pose a risk as she has impaired function when she’s drinking heavily.

Ring adult social care. They'll arrange for a visit and assess the situation. You have to report it as your nan is vulnerable.

Sounds like unresolved issues between them from historical issues, ie maybe your dm is as she is due to how she was parented years ago, and these are now magnified with them being together a lot. They’re both adults, albeit dysfunctional ones, who just have to get on with it. Don’t feel pressured or guilt tripped into doing more. Just maybe pop your head round the door once a week to make sure there are no major reportable safeguarding issues.

Exactly this. Contact professionals, your mum isn’t coping with the considerable amount of care she is providing and your gran needs professional support. Things will only get worse until extra help is provided sadly

I wonder why you put “care” in inverted commas when it sounds like your DM is doing a lot for your DGM.

Being in the midst of it at the minute it’s very hard to provide ongoing care to an elderly relative when they refuse to hire professionals or consider a home. I am often in tears when I get home after a visit as it brings up a lot of past emotional issues, and I had a fairly ok childhood. It sounds like your DM is using the alcohol as a crutch to cope, which isn’t good for her or DGM.

I echo others, contact Age Concern and/or health professionals. What DGM wants doesn’t trump what she needs and shouldn’t come at the cost of the sobriety of her adult DD.

Does your gran have the cognitive capability to understand your concerns if you speak to her when she is alone?

Could she understand concerns about her daughter's drinking and how she is not capable of looking after her? Would it be worth arranging some visits to care homes that offer respite care to find one that your gran likes?

Yes, this. Block out an hour or so when the kids are not around and make some phone calls.

Have a chat with adult social care about the situation. It may not result in any action but hopefully their perspective will be useful.

Also speak to Carers UK. They have a helpline and lots of practical information on their website.
https://www.carersuk.org/help-and-advice/helpline-and-other-support/

And Al Anon about your mum.
https://al-anonuk.org.uk

💐

Have you tried yo tell your mum what you have observed @viva343 ? That she drinks when your gran is with her and it is not safe for your gran?

You could call your local county council and ask to speak to the duty social worker. You need to report a concern about a vulnerable adult. Explain the situation to them.

As for your mum having a go at you, tell her you have 3 DC and have no capacity to do any more than you are already.

Do you have any siblings? What was your childhood like and did your mum have help from your gran? Did your mum do any caring for her own grandparents?

You're right! I apologise -blame it on Sunday morning, half asleep brain! Doh.

Not sure how you,ve worked that out. OP's mum could be anything from 50 and I think 74 is the absolute most she could be.

My grandfather refused help, he was 90 and very clearly struggling but very stubborn. He lived 3 hours away so I couldn't help much - I did contact his local social services but they said it was up to him to agree he needs help, which he wouldn't.

The social worker was lovely and sympathetic, he said something that stuck with me - "adults are entitled to make their own decisions, even if they're bad ones."