11 million immigrants since 2000. When I

i agree OP -it’s too much -most move to London which then gets all of the investment and the rest of the country goes to hang. The MPs deny it cos they are happy to lie to get votes - pretend immigration is needed to get immigrant votes, deny it’s an issue to get white votes -then what do you know - we end up with Reform.

Well, I can only conclude that we must have very different ideas of what might be conducive to good mental health, happiness and a healthy environment. You lauded Bumblebee's suggestions that included getting rid of old people, banning newbuilds from having gardens, and intensively rearing chickens underground! I think these would be most people's idea of hell.

Bumblebee's suggestions:
> Increasing the size of the country like Dubai and the Netherlands do. As suggest we could dam the Wash for example. There must be area of coast we could recover and build on.
> Reducing the number of older people to house and feed. Which is pretty unpaleble to most.
> Increasing housing density. Like build a second tier of social house on top of the existing social housing on stilts. Or my other suggestion of using unproductive buildings - convert all reglious buildings to flats. We could alternatively ban gardens for new builds, make smaller houses, build higher or deeper - maybe we build underground housing. benefit the fields for food.
> Or increase food production density. We are already start to build verticals farms. May be intensively food like chickens could be raised underground underneath housing
What ever it is we need fundamental discussion about how to change the country. Spending 21 pages arguing if we should the numbers are 7, 8 or 11 is really irrelevant.

Your response:
These are all such interesting point and one of the most thoughtful posts I've seen on a MN immigration thread. I really like your point about food production density, unfortunately the government don't seem to be engaging with the farming industry very well but I'm sure plenty would be up for this.

We’ll beg to differ

Indeed. Like anonymous MN posts where they create figures and go on about infrastructure and the environment whilst not saying what they really mean. Like that?

It’s a lot of things

i think a lot of people feel the same but they mutter about it in corners

Well at least you own your racism I guess. It’s the insidious posters who are worse.

‘It’s nothing to do with colour / race - I just care SO MUCH for the environment me’

So you lied in your original post; you lied repeatedly defending it and now you come up with more figures intended to alarm and sow division.

Don't get me wrong here: I completely agree that immigration needs to be controlled and I firmly believe that the asylum system is being abused by economic migrants. But if you have to lie to make your point, you have lost the argument. Also, this may be old fashioned, but I can't stand liars.

So what though

a balance is fine but not so great when the area becomes like Southall

You said ‘there is white flight’ meaning white people are leaving because people of other colours are coming in.

you then said ‘which is a shame’ which suggests that white is the desirable colour for an area.

but also people of other colours than white are not automatically immigrants, which is what this post is about so which it would be inferred you’re speaking about.

so you have indicated you believe those very things I said. And clearly

Genuinely, haven’t I already answered this?

It says it has increased, NOT that there have been 11 million immigrants!

What about the reduction in UK migration due to new EU regs post Brexit?

What about life expectancy increasing?

Stats are NEVER that cut and dry!

With headlines like that you could work for the Daily Fail 🙄

i haven’t made that comment in the first place

why is it so terrible of me to prefer things how they used to be in the 90s?

Hang on. If you’re non-white you’re are an immigrant?

or just undesirable?

which is it?

every now and again the ‘I’m not racist’ mask just slips doesn’t it

So you maybe can turn to the point of the thread is a 18% increase in the population over 25 years with 60% of that coming from net migration a sensible number for you?

Yes I know. Have I disputed that? Im responding to you asking me to provide you with one singular correct number. My post already says there isn’t one. Then you asked me again. I’m not going to make one up like you did, sorry!

I mean, I don’t really care what the number is tbh. I just take issue with misinformation and random estimates presented as fact. It’s a dangerous place to play

I have no idea what you are talking about. Again refer to my post of 10.26 and come back and apologise for the lies and misinformation.

I did, and corrected to 6.6m.

Again, I have acknowledge that is wrong, the like for like number of immigrants that have to the UK is 16m - gross migration. Refer to my post of 10.26. Alternatively go the ONS website and check the numbers yourself.

So literate that you had to wait for me to go and add up the figures for you.

Again, OP was saying 11m immigrants, not 11m population increase!

@Bumblebee72has been clear on what the figures mean, look at the detail of the posts

Oh but they do have money

how else should I describe the situation?

I don't think it is fair to say the 2.5m it was a lie. I think it was an illiterate misunderstanding of the data.

I have been clear that 11m is the increase in population. 8m is the net migration. You are the one who seems confused.

I don't really understand what type conspiracy theorist isn't happy to use the ONS data.

And so was the figure of 2.5m, which you provided earlier in the thread.