Page 6 | 11 million immigrants since 2000. When I

Uggbootsforever · 2025-10-04T07:40:28+00:00

Sorry, it’s another immigration one. I always see immigration discussed in terms of race, religion, who may or may not be a good fit for the UK, whether it’s by small boats - to be honest, this is not the biggest worry for me. The biggest worry is the sheer increase in our population and how many people this country can reasonably accommodate. We are now 8th in Europe for population density - only behind Belgium and the Netherlands, and a handful of places like Vatican City and the Channel Islands. At present we have net migration of around 500,000 a year. I’m worried that the key issues of overpopulation are being overlooked to make this conversation all about race. What about our pollution levels, wildlife habitats, flood risk, food security, infrastructure? Will this eventually be a polluted city state country? It seems to be heading that way. Posters always say we need immigration, but we have already welcome 11 million since 2000. If that still isn’t enough; what is? Or do we just keep going?

Bumblebee72 · 04/10/2025 18:09

BadWoIf · 04/10/2025 16:03

Well, I can only conclude that we must have very different ideas of what might be conducive to good mental health, happiness and a healthy environment. You lauded Bumblebee's suggestions that included getting rid of old people, banning newbuilds from having gardens, and intensively rearing chickens underground! I think these would be most people's idea of hell.

Bumblebee's suggestions:
> Increasing the size of the country like Dubai and the Netherlands do. As suggest we could dam the Wash for example. There must be area of coast we could recover and build on.
> Reducing the number of older people to house and feed. Which is pretty unpaleble to most.
> Increasing housing density. Like build a second tier of social house on top of the existing social housing on stilts. Or my other suggestion of using unproductive buildings - convert all reglious buildings to flats. We could alternatively ban gardens for new builds, make smaller houses, build higher or deeper - maybe we build underground housing. benefit the fields for food.
> Or increase food production density. We are already start to build verticals farms. May be intensively food like chickens could be raised underground underneath housing
What ever it is we need fundamental discussion about how to change the country. Spending 21 pages arguing if we should the numbers are 7, 8 or 11 is really irrelevant.

Your response:
These are all such interesting point and one of the most thoughtful posts I've seen on a MN immigration thread. I really like your point about food production density, unfortunately the government don't seem to be engaging with the farming industry very well but I'm sure plenty would be up for this.

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What would be your plan? I seem to the only who has ideas as to how to increase the population, and reduce food insecuity and reduce the housing crisis. Some more realistic than others. I put some of the more outside the box ideas that came my head like banning garden centres from selling ornamental plants so that every garden productive.

Myrtletown · 04/10/2025 18:08

TwoBagsOfCompost · 04/10/2025 18:07

This is horrifying. Babies not born to British parents is an abomination. Goes against God's will. Defies all logic. All dignity.

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I think it can be ok if you daub a St George flag over their face within 24 hours of birth.

TwoBagsOfCompost · 04/10/2025 18:07

Uggbootsforever · 04/10/2025 17:54

Yes but the majority won’t be born to British parents, by quite a long way .

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This is horrifying. Babies not born to British parents is an abomination. Goes against God's will. Defies all logic. All dignity.

TwoBagsOfCompost · 04/10/2025 18:05

We're millions and millions, we do not die, we reproduce frantically, and we're coming for you. Native Brits beware, the forrins are here.

SerendipityJane · 04/10/2025 18:03

MaurineWayBack · 04/10/2025 17:54

And your calculation doesn’t include those who LEFT

"Calculation" is way to dignified for this level of innumeracy.

EasternStandard · 04/10/2025 18:00

Bumblebee72 · 04/10/2025 17:50

1 in 7 is almost right. 15% which slightly more than 1 in 7 of the uk population was born abroad.

This is the report from the OECD.

United Kingdom: International Migration Outlook 2024 | OECD

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Does the pp reaction still apply

Bumblebee72 · 04/10/2025 17:57

MaurineWayBack · 04/10/2025 17:53

Born outside the U.K. doesn’t equate immigrants.
You can be born outside the U.K. and still be British.

Quote wrong post so edited.

Original poster

Uggbootsforever · 04/10/2025 17:55

MaurineWayBack · 04/10/2025 17:54

And your calculation doesn’t include those who LEFT

They’re net figures.

So they do.

OP posts:

Original poster

Uggbootsforever · 04/10/2025 17:54

MaurineWayBack · 04/10/2025 17:53

Born outside the U.K. doesn’t equate immigrants.
You can be born outside the U.K. and still be British.

Yes but the majority won’t be born to British parents, by quite a long way .

OP posts:

MaurineWayBack · 04/10/2025 17:54

And your calculation doesn’t include those who LEFT

MaurineWayBack · 04/10/2025 17:54

And your calculation doesn’t include those who LEFT

MaurineWayBack · 04/10/2025 17:53

Born outside the U.K. doesn’t equate immigrants.
You can be born outside the U.K. and still be British.

Original poster

Uggbootsforever · 04/10/2025 17:51

Uggbootsforever · 04/10/2025 17:47

11.4 million people living in the UK were born outside so actually more than 1 in 7. I love that you thought a figure even less than that was so shocking as to be ‘bollocks’ - hoisted by your own petard.

Let’s do this once and for all.

Since then, net migration has been consistently positive, so adding to the population of the UK. It averaged 223,000 during the 2000s and 260,000 during the 2010s. The figure demonstrates the very unusual levels of net migration observed since 2021.

223,000 x 10 =2,230,000
260,000 x 10 =2,600,000

So that’s nearly 5 million (4.83m) net immigration from 2000-2019.

2020 - 34,000 (Covid)
2021 - 484,000
2022 - 745,000
2023 - 860,000
2024 - 431,000

Total from the above plus 4.83 million is around 7 million. That’s the minimum, as this doesn’t include off the record immigrants and visa over-stayers. That is likely a couple of million more.

All taken from ONS.

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Just to put this in context we’ve added more than an entire Scotland and Wales combined since the Millennium.

OP posts:

Bumblebee72 · 04/10/2025 17:50

SerendipityJane · 04/10/2025 17:43

Someones arse.

I mean if 11 million people have immigrated since 2000, then 1 in 7 of us are immigrants.

Fuck that bollocks.

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1 in 7 is almost right. 15% which slightly more than 1 in 7 of the uk population was born abroad.

This is the report from the OECD.

United Kingdom: International Migration Outlook 2024 | OECD

Original poster

Uggbootsforever · 04/10/2025 17:47

SerendipityJane · 04/10/2025 17:43

Someones arse.

I mean if 11 million people have immigrated since 2000, then 1 in 7 of us are immigrants.

Fuck that bollocks.

Show quote history

11.4 million people living in the UK were born outside so actually more than 1 in 7. I love that you thought a figure even less than that was so shocking as to be ‘bollocks’ - hoisted by your own petard.

Let’s do this once and for all.

Since then, net migration has been consistently positive, so adding to the population of the UK. It averaged 223,000 during the 2000s and 260,000 during the 2010s. The figure demonstrates the very unusual levels of net migration observed since 2021.

223,000 x 10 =2,230,000
260,000 x 10 =2,600,000

So that’s nearly 5 million (4.83m) net immigration from 2000-2019.

2020 - 34,000 (Covid)
2021 - 484,000
2022 - 745,000
2023 - 860,000
2024 - 431,000

Total from the above plus 4.83 million is around 7 million. That’s the minimum, as this doesn’t include off the record immigrants and visa over-stayers. That is likely a couple of million more.

All taken from ONS.

OP posts:

SerendipityJane · 04/10/2025 17:43

BallerinaRadio · 04/10/2025 08:44

Where did you get the 11 million figure from?

Someones arse.

I mean if 11 million people have immigrated since 2000, then 1 in 7 of us are immigrants.

Fuck that bollocks.

Bumblebee72 · 04/10/2025 17:41

newbluesofa · 04/10/2025 16:57

Ah fair enough my mistake I did mention that - I'm not really sure about underground chickens specifically, but I said it would be good for the government to engage with farmers to explore vertical farming.

I don't agree with all of her suggestions but I like that she gave suggestions and actually engaged in a good faith and open minded way. I hardly ever see that on these threads, many people just seem to be looking for an argument and that's not going to get us anywhere

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Increasing food production density can take many forms. It doesn't have to be underground chickens - although given that something like 30% of UK eggs come from indoor chickens that never see the sun anyway it doesn't seem much of a stetch. For boiler chickrens the new and improved standard only requires 3% of the floor to have light from windows. I recently met someone who grows veg in a shipping container - they have 10 levels within so could grow something 6 times the amount of the same plot.

Bumblebee72 · 04/10/2025 17:33

MaturingCheeseball · 04/10/2025 17:09

I thought Bumblebee’s suggestions were a joke! Eliminate old people? Like Logan’s Run?! I can’t disagree that living with advanced dementia for years is pointless (experience here) but actually eliminating people would be a difficult one to sell!

But making the UK into Hong Kong would be very depressing. My council seems keen on this idea: building on every scrap of green space (even wanting to fell ancient woodland!) and then trumpeting that we have - ta da! - a new amenity space with a jogging track, skate ramp and a bit of green smaller than my back garden (which I can assure you is not large).

It wasn't a thought out plan. It was that there are only so many streams that can balance bring more people in to the country and food security. You make the country bigger, you make increase population density so you have more people but keep farm land, or you increase farming density so that you can have people in more space but feed them with less space.

I definitely think some things should be underground. Mass transit systems. These warehouses have very few people and lots of robots so can work fine underground. I'm not sure that social housing on stilts is really a goer and I can't imagine. Many chickens never really see the light of day anyway so why not have them underground. Some things like vertical farming are already underway.

MaturingCheeseball · 04/10/2025 17:09

I thought Bumblebee’s suggestions were a joke! Eliminate old people? Like Logan’s Run?! I can’t disagree that living with advanced dementia for years is pointless (experience here) but actually eliminating people would be a difficult one to sell!

But making the UK into Hong Kong would be very depressing. My council seems keen on this idea: building on every scrap of green space (even wanting to fell ancient woodland!) and then trumpeting that we have - ta da! - a new amenity space with a jogging track, skate ramp and a bit of green smaller than my back garden (which I can assure you is not large).

ClearUnderfoot · 04/10/2025 17:03

Reservoirs near us are just not filling back up, each year they get lower and don't fully recover. I think there will be a water crisis if we keep expanding our population while Summers get drier.

newbluesofa · 04/10/2025 16:57

BadWoIf · 04/10/2025 16:47

You said (to Bumblebee), "I really like your point about food production density", which is absolutely one of the points I focussed on - her suggestion of intensively reared chickens kept underground! 😂

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Ah fair enough my mistake I did mention that - I'm not really sure about underground chickens specifically, but I said it would be good for the government to engage with farmers to explore vertical farming.

I don't agree with all of her suggestions but I like that she gave suggestions and actually engaged in a good faith and open minded way. I hardly ever see that on these threads, many people just seem to be looking for an argument and that's not going to get us anywhere

BadWoIf · 04/10/2025 16:47

newbluesofa · 04/10/2025 16:09

I didn't 'laud' her suggestions, I said they were interesting then I expanded on a couple I agreed with, neither of which were the ones you've focused on here. Another example of you wilfully misinterpreting what I actually said for the sake of being argumentative 🙄

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You said (to Bumblebee), "I really like your point about food production density", which is absolutely one of the points I focussed on - her suggestion of intensively reared chickens kept underground! 😂

nomas · 04/10/2025 16:10

YelloDaisy · 04/10/2025 16:05

i agree OP -it’s too much -most move to London which then gets all of the investment and the rest of the country goes to hang. The MPs deny it cos they are happy to lie to get votes - pretend immigration is needed to get immigrant votes, deny it’s an issue to get white votes -then what do you know - we end up with Reform.

London pays almost a third of the UK’s tax and generates almost as much tax as the next 37 largest cities combined. London subsidises the rest of the country.

That is unlikely to change with Reform.

Acommonreader · 04/10/2025 16:10

ladybirdsanchez · 04/10/2025 09:01

YANBU and when people point out that the shortages we have in housing and in doctor's surgeries, in all kinds of infrastructure are due to huge population increase, they get accused of racism and xenophobia and basically being a jerk, but it's obvious. The reason we have a huge housing shortage is because the level of house-building we have can't keep up with the huge and relentless increase in our population since 1997.

There are other reasons behind a housing shortage. Firstly empty homes and holiday lets are a massive issue that did not exist 50 years ago. Secondly the way we live. I am a part of this problem admittedly- I live in a 3 bed house with one child. My divorced parents each live in 4 bed house. I have two neighbours, both retired widows who still live in their family 4 bed.This is a modern phenomenon that has contributed to the housing shortage.
Population increases, (which are definitely not 11 million immigrants) are only part of the housing crisis but immigrant invasions make better headlines than dull fact!

newbluesofa · 04/10/2025 16:09

BadWoIf · 04/10/2025 16:03

Well, I can only conclude that we must have very different ideas of what might be conducive to good mental health, happiness and a healthy environment. You lauded Bumblebee's suggestions that included getting rid of old people, banning newbuilds from having gardens, and intensively rearing chickens underground! I think these would be most people's idea of hell.

Bumblebee's suggestions:
> Increasing the size of the country like Dubai and the Netherlands do. As suggest we could dam the Wash for example. There must be area of coast we could recover and build on.
> Reducing the number of older people to house and feed. Which is pretty unpaleble to most.
> Increasing housing density. Like build a second tier of social house on top of the existing social housing on stilts. Or my other suggestion of using unproductive buildings - convert all reglious buildings to flats. We could alternatively ban gardens for new builds, make smaller houses, build higher or deeper - maybe we build underground housing. benefit the fields for food.
> Or increase food production density. We are already start to build verticals farms. May be intensively food like chickens could be raised underground underneath housing
What ever it is we need fundamental discussion about how to change the country. Spending 21 pages arguing if we should the numbers are 7, 8 or 11 is really irrelevant.

Your response:
These are all such interesting point and one of the most thoughtful posts I've seen on a MN immigration thread. I really like your point about food production density, unfortunately the government don't seem to be engaging with the farming industry very well but I'm sure plenty would be up for this.

Show quote history

I didn't 'laud' her suggestions, I said they were interesting then I expanded on a couple I agreed with, neither of which were the ones you've focused on here. Another example of you wilfully misinterpreting what I actually said for the sake of being argumentative 🙄