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AIBU?

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Original poster

11 million immigrants since 2000. When I

789 replies

Uggbootsforever · 04/10/2025 08:40

Sorry, it’s another immigration one.

I always see immigration discussed in terms of race, religion, who may or may not be a good fit for the UK, whether it’s by small boats - to be honest, this is not the biggest worry for me.

The biggest worry is the sheer increase in our population and how many people this country can reasonably accommodate. We are now 8th in Europe for population density - only behind Belgium and the Netherlands, and a handful of places like Vatican City and the Channel Islands. At present we have net migration of around 500,000 a year.

I’m worried that the key issues of overpopulation are being overlooked to make this conversation all about race. What about our pollution levels, wildlife habitats, flood risk, food security, infrastructure? Will this eventually be a polluted city state country? It seems to be heading that way.

Posters always say we need immigration, but we have already welcome 11 million since 2000. If that still isn’t enough; what is? Or do we just keep going?

OP posts:
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HarrisonsHair · 04/10/2025 10:02

Uggbootsforever · 04/10/2025 09:59

Do you hate wildlife? Why do you want them all wiped out?

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I think some farming practices are responsible for the decline in wildlife. Does that worry you as well?

Original poster
Uggbootsforever · 04/10/2025 10:02

Bumblebee72 · 04/10/2025 10:01

We've been over populated for decades. Hence why so many of us are concerned about adding more and more heads. Concern over food security isn't a new thing, but for those of us worried about it 1m extra mouths to feed in a year is rapidly a accelerating the problem.

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Until 15 years ago or so we could just about feed the population if we needed to, but no more.

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BallerinaRadio · 04/10/2025 10:01

Uggbootsforever · 04/10/2025 09:53

Why?

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Because it's not bloody true!

Original poster
Uggbootsforever · 04/10/2025 10:01

bemoresloth · 04/10/2025 10:00

As per your link, immigration is coming down and will continue to do so

What do you want to happen @Uggbootsforever ?

Mass deportations of those who came here since 2000?

I’ve said very clearly on multiple threads that I do not want mass deportation, and I am not a Reform voter (nor will I be).

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Bumblebee72 · 04/10/2025 10:01

Eskarina1 · 04/10/2025 09:55

We haven't been able to feed ourselves for decades. We should definitely look at how we'd address this.

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We've been over populated for decades. Hence why so many of us are concerned about adding more and more heads. Concern over food security isn't a new thing, but for those of us worried about it 1m extra mouths to feed in a year is rapidly a accelerating the problem.

Original poster
Uggbootsforever · 04/10/2025 10:01

QueenOfCastille · 04/10/2025 09:58

Population increases also result from people living longer, though. Not just births. If you have a population of 1000 and every year 100 children are born and 100 old people die, it remains stable. If 80 children are born but only 70 old people die, you get an increase. You haven’t taken that into consideration, OP. Essentially you haven’t justified your opening premise that this all comes from immigration.

it is far more worrying that the facilities aren’t being provided for our ageing population. Fortunately, the immigrants that do move here tend to be young people, so hopefully they can generate the tax revenue that we need to support the rest of us as we get older.

I have because I’ve only gone from the net migration figures, not the entire population as a whole. If that’s true then I expect it’ll be more than 11 million.

Again - can anyone else do the sums and prove me wrong, clearly and numerically?

OP posts:
Phobiaphobic · 04/10/2025 10:00

TeenagersAngst · 04/10/2025 08:49

The UK is not overpopulated in the strictest sense, if you drive around there are miles and miles and miles of countryside which is not built upon.

The problem is that immigration tends not to be planned for beyond which jobs we have trouble recruiting for from the native population. So immigrants tend to settle in cities where the jobs are and this puts pressure on specific areas. Infrastructure expansion is not planned for or funded.

Of course, none of that gets away from the fact that massive population changes in a short period of time can have negative impacts on other aspects of life and should be carefully considered in the round.

If you built on all that countryside, we'd have nothing to eat. A country can be overpopulated and still needs lots of countryside for food.

Digdongdoo · 04/10/2025 10:00

Uggbootsforever · 04/10/2025 09:56

Because this isn’t even really about immigration, it’s about overpopulation. Every single immigrant could be a net contributor and it still wouldn’t negate the effects of overpopulation. If this increase was due to British citizens having 5 or 6 kids each, and not due to immigration, I would feel the same way.

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Of course it is a thread about immigration. You didn't even mention any other factors like births, deaths or life expectancy.

bemoresloth · 04/10/2025 10:00

As per your link, immigration is coming down and will continue to do so

What do you want to happen @Uggbootsforever ?

Mass deportations of those who came here since 2000?

Original poster
Uggbootsforever · 04/10/2025 09:59

Donttellempike · 04/10/2025 09:58

Don’t you think there is enough hate around without you agitating for more?

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Do you hate wildlife? Why do you want them all wiped out?

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Original poster
Uggbootsforever · 04/10/2025 09:59

Shessweetbutapsycho · 04/10/2025 09:56

So what you’re saying is you basically fudged your own figures…

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This is getting so tiresome I will only repeat it 1 last time.

ONS has very clear net migration figures, per year, since the early 90s. If you add up the net figures, it is over 10 million people.

The minimum net migration was 100,000 in the early 90s. That then boomed in the 2000s and again in the 2010s, peaking at 800,000 in 2022. 30 years of a minimum 100,000 people per year but more like 300,000 or 400,000, will indeed result in a very high number.

Very happy to be proved wrong by somebody else adding up those numbers and telling me I’m way out.

OP posts:
Elizabethandfour · 04/10/2025 09:58

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Donttellempike · 04/10/2025 09:58

Uggbootsforever · 04/10/2025 08:43

Well not in the sense that it’s a subjective term so anyone can say ‘oh it’s not overpopulated’ and there’s no hard marker to prove them wrong.

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Don’t you think there is enough hate around without you agitating for more?

QueenOfCastille · 04/10/2025 09:58

Population increases also result from people living longer, though. Not just births. If you have a population of 1000 and every year 100 children are born and 100 old people die, it remains stable. If 80 children are born but only 70 old people die, you get an increase. You haven’t taken that into consideration, OP. Essentially you haven’t justified your opening premise that this all comes from immigration.

it is far more worrying that the facilities aren’t being provided for our ageing population. Fortunately, the immigrants that do move here tend to be young people, so hopefully they can generate the tax revenue that we need to support the rest of us as we get older.

Digdongdoo · 04/10/2025 09:57

Uggbootsforever · 04/10/2025 09:51

I must be imagining the NHS care I received in the 90s, the social housing I lived in and the school I went do. I must’ve spent the days chasing a hoop with a stick, and blocked it out from the trauma. Silly me

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You're romanticizing the past OP. The NHS of the 90s provided much more limited care, the social housing was already being sold off and the education system excluded and failed many children in already dilapidated buildings.

Livelovebehappy · 04/10/2025 09:56

BallerinaRadio · 04/10/2025 09:52

I'm surprised the post is still up to be fair or at least been made to edit the title.

But actually it should probably really be deleted

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Why? You think it should be deleted because you don’t agree with or like what’s being said? If the thread’s frustrating you, then why not just, you know, hide it?

Original poster
Uggbootsforever · 04/10/2025 09:56

Digdongdoo · 04/10/2025 09:51

Why isn't it relevant?

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Because this isn’t even really about immigration, it’s about overpopulation. Every single immigrant could be a net contributor and it still wouldn’t negate the effects of overpopulation. If this increase was due to British citizens having 5 or 6 kids each, and not due to immigration, I would feel the same way.

OP posts:
Shessweetbutapsycho · 04/10/2025 09:56

Uggbootsforever · 04/10/2025 08:48

Our population has increased by 11 million since 2000. British families haven’t been having enough children to sustain the population for some time now, so it makes sense. If you go to the Office for Statistics online the numbers are there.

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So what you’re saying is you basically fudged your own figures…

EasternStandard · 04/10/2025 09:55

Uggbootsforever · 04/10/2025 09:53

Why?

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Why indeed. It’s a discussion on how to deal with a pretty big issue.

Eskarina1 · 04/10/2025 09:55

Bumblebee72 · 04/10/2025 09:51

I think a country is over populated when it can't grow its own food. Given we no longer have a empire to feed us or a navy to help get food in. If there was another world war we are looking at the same slow starvation as Gaza.

We haven't been able to feed ourselves for decades. We should definitely look at how we'd address this.

Original poster
Uggbootsforever · 04/10/2025 09:55

Bumblebee72 · 04/10/2025 09:55

Until they raise pension age to create an equilibrium, the state pension will always be a ponzi scheme,

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I would take the hit for later generations because that’s what proper adults should do.

OP posts:
CatchingtheCat · 04/10/2025 09:55

PinkFrogss · 04/10/2025 09:44

Of course they do, but they also die. So they, along with people born in the UK, are contributing towards birth and death rates. You said I was ignoring who was responsible for those births - immigrants make up a small proportion of the UK population, feel free to provide some stats that show that they give birth at a higher rate and die at a lower rate than people born in the UK. Otherwise their impact on overall birth to death rates is going to be lower than the impact of those born in the United Kingdom

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Do you think immigrants arrive as a stable age group? Equal numbers of older people and younger people? If that was the case how would they be supporting an aging population? Or do you think they are disproportionately younger workers here to bring succour to the older population of the Uk? And if the latter then on what is your basis for them not having babies?

Original poster
Uggbootsforever · 04/10/2025 09:55

Bumblebee72 · 04/10/2025 09:51

I think a country is over populated when it can't grow its own food. Given we no longer have a empire to feed us or a navy to help get food in. If there was another world war we are looking at the same slow starvation as Gaza.

We now have more people than acres which is a really worrying situation.

In the event of food chains being disrupted (which is already happening but thus far has lead only to price increases, which has been lamented enough on here), we literally would not be able to feed our population. People would starve.

No doubt when the unthinkable happens and this plays out the very same posters calling for this thread to be deleted will wonder ‘how on earth we allowed this to happen’

OP posts:
Bumblebee72 · 04/10/2025 09:55

AlecTrevelyan006 · 04/10/2025 09:52

this is actually a good point - the trend for falling birth rates is happening globally. It is most notable in western societies but statisticians have noted that it occurring everywhere but we don't notice it as much because certain countries and demographics are behind the curve. Also, although immigrants tend to have higher birth rates than 'non-immigrants', it generally falls over time to fall in line with that of the native population.

What we actually need to be doing is readjusting our economy and society so that we are no longer reliant on immigrant workforces.

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Until they raise pension age to create an equilibrium, the state pension will always be a ponzi scheme,

Themedat · 04/10/2025 09:54

BallerinaRadio · 04/10/2025 09:52

I'm surprised the post is still up to be fair or at least been made to edit the title.

But actually it should probably really be deleted

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I am sorry what?! You think the thread should be deleted why!!!