Page 13 | 11 million immigrants since 2000. When I

Uggbootsforever · 2025-10-04T07:40:28+00:00

Sorry, it’s another immigration one. I always see immigration discussed in terms of race, religion, who may or may not be a good fit for the UK, whether it’s by small boats - to be honest, this is not the biggest worry for me. The biggest worry is the sheer increase in our population and how many people this country can reasonably accommodate. We are now 8th in Europe for population density - only behind Belgium and the Netherlands, and a handful of places like Vatican City and the Channel Islands. At present we have net migration of around 500,000 a year. I’m worried that the key issues of overpopulation are being overlooked to make this conversation all about race. What about our pollution levels, wildlife habitats, flood risk, food security, infrastructure? Will this eventually be a polluted city state country? It seems to be heading that way. Posters always say we need immigration, but we have already welcome 11 million since 2000. If that still isn’t enough; what is? Or do we just keep going?

Original poster

Uggbootsforever · 04/10/2025 13:21

whoamI00 · 04/10/2025 13:16

Don’t you think that an increased population without immigration would have a similar impact on pollution, wildlife habitats, and other environmental issues?

Yes, I addressed this upthread.

My feelings would be no different. But that’s not what’s happening here.

OP posts:

newbluesofa · 04/10/2025 13:20

Uggbootsforever · 04/10/2025 13:15

So in theory we just keep building infrastructure and expanding… until what, no more room to build? then what? Just call everyone a racist?!

Show quote history

Well yes, as long as we have sufficient infrastructure in place (which we currently don't) then why not? If we 'run out of room' that would mean we can't provide sufficient infrastructure so then would need to reduce immigration. If we had sufficient infrastructure then what would be the reason to reduce immigration? You sound very panicked here whats going on?

Myrtletown · 04/10/2025 13:20

Bumblebee72 · 04/10/2025 13:13

Ballerina never back after the links that validate the scale is in the right ball if not completely correctly label. If you she so shocked that understanding was that she has gone to sign up for Reform.

Show quote history

Eh?

FOJN · 04/10/2025 13:20

ChevyCamaro · 04/10/2025 13:00

I’d really like to address the truism I hear over and over on here regarding immigration- “ We need overseas workers to do the jobs British people think they are too good to do”
I often get the feeling the people saying this have never been poor or working class.
The reality is this: If you are, for example a lone parent with no car and you need a job you will find that supermarkets and shops don’t need many people anymore, and the ones that do will only give random hours so you can’t plan in childcare.
You’d be expected to do early/ late/ night shifts that childcare won’t cover.
There are no factories anymore to speak of, and the ones there are youd need a car to get to and from, as public transport is non existent or unreliable even in big cities. For many care jobs you also need a car.
When I was young I lived in a very deprived area, but I’d sometimes get temp work in factories. The agency would bus us there from the city centre office. I doubt that still exists.
Hospitality, you will need to work every Saturday and Sunday and fruit and veg picking, again you need a car.
When my husband came here as a young man he worked in hotels,so had live- in accommodation. He nearly always got jobs where he’d have some kind of basic accommodation- he could do this as he was young, single with no family.
I knew Poles who came as young people and lived in shared houses, sharing rooms to save money. You can do that when it’s temporary and you are sending plenty of money home for your future.
Things like nursing, which was a key working class profession, used to have a bursary. Now you pay to study.
Working conditions and infrastructure are MASSIVE obstacles to the working class. Public transport is not some nice to have add on, it’s essential for workers to be able to work.
In the past 25 years I’ve seen zero hours contracts, total decimation in infrastructure, deciline in manufacturing and total stalling of social mobility. You are at the bottom, there are multiple mechanisms in place keeping you there.
Im so sick of middle class people who have never faced any of these obstacles sneering at the working class for “ not wanting to get their hands dirty” .
Yes, we should have some immigration, no I’m not a Brexiteer, but we need to look at this issue as a whole picture, not trot out soundbites thinking they make you sound liberal and tolerant.
Working class people are always the ones suffering when those at the top decide what’s best for the economy.

100% this.

Imagine if the middle class professional jobs offered 12 hour contracts with the opportunity for overtime but that overtime was only ever offered at short notice and you know you will not get offered extra hours again for weeks if you don't take the shifts when they are offered. If you can't take the extra hours you have to apply for UC to top up your basic income but that won't get paid before your DD's are taken out so you may go into overdraft or some of your bills don't get paid.

Some people just have no idea but they've got plenty to say about how you could make your life better if you just tried harder.

EasternStandard · 04/10/2025 13:19

nomas · 04/10/2025 13:16

I’ve already attached why I posted 2.5.

And no, my number was closer.

Show quote history

It’s wrong

Myrtletown · 04/10/2025 13:18

We have schools with classes of almost no girls because of sex abortions. We have 30-40% sen in schools because of inbreeding.

wow. Untrue and racist

nomas · 04/10/2025 13:17

Myrtletown · 04/10/2025 13:15

I really think @Mumsnet should monitor and edit posts such as this. The title is blatant misinformation with no stat to back it up. It’s fine if op wants to discuss immigration and how she’s come to this (imagined) number but it’s NOT fine to title a thread with misinformation and fake news, as some will just see that and take it as fact.

MN has a responsibility here as do all major internet sites and companies.

Agreed. It’s the Trump era of fake truths.

whoamI00 · 04/10/2025 13:16

Don’t you think that an increased population without immigration would have a similar impact on pollution, wildlife habitats, and other environmental issues?

nomas · 04/10/2025 13:16

EasternStandard · 04/10/2025 13:00

Your 2.5m wasn’t correct. The post you’re replying to is closer to what it is.

Show quote history

I’ve already attached why I posted 2.5.

And no, my number was closer.

Original poster

Uggbootsforever · 04/10/2025 13:15

newbluesofa · 04/10/2025 13:14

It is completely the discussion here! You said in your OP 'The biggest worry is the sheer increase in our population and how many people this country can reasonably accommodate.' - how many we can accommodate depends entirely on infrastructure.

Are you serious with this thread? You've seen that the population has increased by 11 million and decided that that entire number is immigrants and then completely dimissed a very relevant point about infrastructure. I really despair at some people, no wonder reform are winning people over when basic logic is lacking

Show quote history

So in theory we just keep building infrastructure and expanding… until what, no more room to build? then what? Just call everyone a racist?!

OP posts:

Myrtletown · 04/10/2025 13:15

I really think @Mumsnet should monitor and edit posts such as this. The title is blatant misinformation with no stat to back it up. It’s fine if op wants to discuss immigration and how she’s come to this (imagined) number but it’s NOT fine to title a thread with misinformation and fake news, as some will just see that and take it as fact.

MN has a responsibility here as do all major internet sites and companies.

newbluesofa · 04/10/2025 13:14

Uggbootsforever · 04/10/2025 09:02

That’s really not the discussion we are having here

Show quote history

It is completely the discussion here! You said in your OP 'The biggest worry is the sheer increase in our population and how many people this country can reasonably accommodate.' - how many we can accommodate depends entirely on infrastructure.

Are you serious with this thread? You've seen that the population has increased by 11 million and decided that that entire number is immigrants and then completely dimissed a very relevant point about infrastructure. I really despair at some people, no wonder reform are winning people over when basic logic is lacking

Original poster

Uggbootsforever · 04/10/2025 13:14

DIYagainstMould · 04/10/2025 13:08

Starr having enough of these threads. We are here, your men fall head over heels for us, they don't divorce us, suck it English women, especially the racists.

😂

OP posts:

Nohorsesonlyfools · 04/10/2025 13:14

BatchCookBabe · 04/10/2025 11:09

Why aren't you posting a link to the ONS proof of the 11 millions immigrants since 2000 @Uggbootsforever ???

Show quote history

Stop trying to derail. Even half a brain cell knows it's true.

London alone is 40- 50% foreign born and that's just legal and documented. Overwhelmengly from developing countries/third world. In reality probably much more than that.

We have whole schools with teacher and pupils population where not a single person, teacher or pupil, grew up in a household where women are considered equal to men or are treated with respect. We have schools with classes of almost no girls because of sex abortions. We have 30-40% sen in schools because of inbreeding.

We have whole areas, communities, GP surgeries, shops, councils where people operate within doctrines not compatible with a civilised democratic egalitarian societies. This has an effect on everything else.

Who in their right mind would think any of it is okay.

Bumblebee72 · 04/10/2025 13:13

Myrtletown · 04/10/2025 13:08

I’m not sure op is particularly smart

She’s made up a number from various sources and data she doesn’t quite understand

And then asked people to prove it’s wrong.

its like me saying ‘there were 12,000 horses born without a tail in the last 5 years, if you disagree then prove me wrong with a stat.’

As I say, not the….

Show quote history

Ballerina never back after the links that validate the scale is in the right ball if not completely correctly label. If you she so shocked that understanding was that she has gone to sign up for Reform.

Bumblebee72 · 04/10/2025 13:11

DIYagainstMould · 04/10/2025 13:08

Starr having enough of these threads. We are here, your men fall head over heels for us, they don't divorce us, suck it English women, especially the racists.

Love an ironic post.

DIYagainstMould · 04/10/2025 13:08

Starr having enough of these threads. We are here, your men fall head over heels for us, they don't divorce us, suck it English women, especially the racists.

Myrtletown · 04/10/2025 13:08

BallerinaRadio · 04/10/2025 09:33

You are not the person to be asking someone for evidence or to back up a claim your figure isn't automatically true until proven otherwise 😂😂😂

Show quote history

I’m not sure op is particularly smart

She’s made up a number from various sources and data she doesn’t quite understand

And then asked people to prove it’s wrong.

its like me saying ‘there were 12,000 horses born without a tail in the last 5 years, if you disagree then prove me wrong with a stat.’

As I say, not the….

Bumblebee72 · 04/10/2025 13:06

nomas · 04/10/2025 12:57

People come to the UK and leave, shocker.

11m net migrants is a big fat lie. End of.

And 7-8m is also a made up figure.

Edited

Show quote history

Even in your own post you state the increase in 9 years from 2012 to 2021 was 2.5m. Even a simple extrapolation of that period support net immigration over the period from 2000 to 2025 would near to 6m, and we know there was a spike in 2022/2023.

Where is the big fat lie? Other than you trying obfuscate by the wrong periods of time.

Does the fact that you have misinterpreted the data by 100% change you view? Or is view set regardless of the data?

Original poster

Uggbootsforever · 04/10/2025 13:05

ChevyCamaro · 04/10/2025 13:00

I’d really like to address the truism I hear over and over on here regarding immigration- “ We need overseas workers to do the jobs British people think they are too good to do”
I often get the feeling the people saying this have never been poor or working class.
The reality is this: If you are, for example a lone parent with no car and you need a job you will find that supermarkets and shops don’t need many people anymore, and the ones that do will only give random hours so you can’t plan in childcare.
You’d be expected to do early/ late/ night shifts that childcare won’t cover.
There are no factories anymore to speak of, and the ones there are youd need a car to get to and from, as public transport is non existent or unreliable even in big cities. For many care jobs you also need a car.
When I was young I lived in a very deprived area, but I’d sometimes get temp work in factories. The agency would bus us there from the city centre office. I doubt that still exists.
Hospitality, you will need to work every Saturday and Sunday and fruit and veg picking, again you need a car.
When my husband came here as a young man he worked in hotels,so had live- in accommodation. He nearly always got jobs where he’d have some kind of basic accommodation- he could do this as he was young, single with no family.
I knew Poles who came as young people and lived in shared houses, sharing rooms to save money. You can do that when it’s temporary and you are sending plenty of money home for your future.
Things like nursing, which was a key working class profession, used to have a bursary. Now you pay to study.
Working conditions and infrastructure are MASSIVE obstacles to the working class. Public transport is not some nice to have add on, it’s essential for workers to be able to work.
In the past 25 years I’ve seen zero hours contracts, total decimation in infrastructure, deciline in manufacturing and total stalling of social mobility. You are at the bottom, there are multiple mechanisms in place keeping you there.
Im so sick of middle class people who have never faced any of these obstacles sneering at the working class for “ not wanting to get their hands dirty” .
Yes, we should have some immigration, no I’m not a Brexiteer, but we need to look at this issue as a whole picture, not trot out soundbites thinking they make you sound liberal and tolerant.
Working class people are always the ones suffering when those at the top decide what’s best for the economy.

I agree; a lot of the people out of work on benefits now, in a previous life, would’ve been coal miners or worked in factories (MIL worked in a factory and said the work was easy to get, flexible hours etc when she had small children she often did nights).

We can either support our own population into employment or continue to keep them on benefits while upping immigration.

OP posts:

ChevyCamaro · 04/10/2025 13:05

DIYagainstMould · 04/10/2025 13:02

Question: 5 generations back, are you historically all pure white English? With amazingly flourishing family tree or you are half of this and that, quarter of them and them and your husband also, but you just create one of these threads for the sake of mumsnetting on a free Saturday. Be honest

Well I’m not even 1 % genetically English but what’s that got to do with it?? It’s not about race! It’s about the speed and magnitude of change and the impact on us because of that.

DIYagainstMould · 04/10/2025 13:05

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

sussexman · 04/10/2025 13:04

Uggbootsforever · 04/10/2025 08:56

Why aren’t you just engaging with the debate rather than back searching and trying to derail? Am I wrong about something?

This is the part of the immigration debate which nobody mentions. I think it’s worth mentioning.

Show quote history

Your 11 million figure for net migration is definitely wrong; the increase in population is not solely due to migration. People are living longer. The ONS only publishes stats on net migration back to 2012 using the current method - that has been referenced up thread - and totals 4.4million. As net migration pre 2012 bumped around the 200,000 mark, you can't get to 11 million immigrants.

It is very hard to say we are overpopulated when less than 10% of the country is developed. The fact that we haven't made development easy (and stopped building council houses) is a big problem, but there's plenty of space and we are big enough and clever enough to do it wisely if we so choose.

quantumbutterfly · 04/10/2025 13:02

Octavia64 · 04/10/2025 09:00

There are vast areas of the U.K. that are if anything underpopulated.

compare the Lake District or borders with London and the south east more generally and there is no comparison.

I’m on holiday in rural Norfolk at the moment - this area is never going to be a polluted city state.

If you grew up in the outskirts of a city and have lived for more than a few decades you will have seen a dramatic increase in housing intensity.
It is unsustainable if you also want land for food production, leisure and wildlife.
Having access to outside space, especially green space is known to be good for mental health and if you were stuck in a high rise during lock down you may be more aware of that.
There will be painful competition for resources if population expansion continues within countries or worldwide, some people are feeling it now, it will get worse. You're lucky if it hasn't happened to you yet.

If you see it coming you have a chance to avoid the crisis (by good government😶) , or prep for it -there's a board for that. Otherwise you're cramming the A-level syllabus the night before the exam - good luck.

DIYagainstMould · 04/10/2025 13:02

Question: 5 generations back, are you historically all pure white English? With amazingly flourishing family tree or you are half of this and that, quarter of them and them and your husband also, but you just create one of these threads for the sake of mumsnetting on a free Saturday. Be honest