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Original poster

11 million immigrants since 2000. When I

789 replies

Uggbootsforever · 04/10/2025 08:40

Sorry, it’s another immigration one.

I always see immigration discussed in terms of race, religion, who may or may not be a good fit for the UK, whether it’s by small boats - to be honest, this is not the biggest worry for me.

The biggest worry is the sheer increase in our population and how many people this country can reasonably accommodate. We are now 8th in Europe for population density - only behind Belgium and the Netherlands, and a handful of places like Vatican City and the Channel Islands. At present we have net migration of around 500,000 a year.

I’m worried that the key issues of overpopulation are being overlooked to make this conversation all about race. What about our pollution levels, wildlife habitats, flood risk, food security, infrastructure? Will this eventually be a polluted city state country? It seems to be heading that way.

Posters always say we need immigration, but we have already welcome 11 million since 2000. If that still isn’t enough; what is? Or do we just keep going?

OP posts:
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Original poster
Uggbootsforever · 04/10/2025 14:43

Bumblebee72 · 04/10/2025 14:41

I doubt we will get a response obfuscation strategies don't work when have to make a decision.

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Absolutely. Eventually they dodge clear questions so much you realise they’re trying to make the argument so incomprehensible it can mean anything they want it to mean.

OP posts:
nomas · 04/10/2025 14:42

Bumblebee72 · 04/10/2025 14:39

But all of those factors would lead to high net migration? You believe in the same net migration was much lower than I quoted for the ONS

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Yes, they did lead to higher immigration.

I’m not calling for more immigration. I’m just not a fan of demonising immigrants and asylum seekers.

Myrtletown · 04/10/2025 14:42

Bumblebee72 · 04/10/2025 14:41

I doubt we will get a response obfuscation strategies don't work when have to make a decision.

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I responded to you above. Happy to help

Bumblebee72 · 04/10/2025 14:41

EasternStandard · 04/10/2025 14:40

@Myrtletowninterested too

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I doubt we will get a response obfuscation strategies don't work when have to make a decision.

EasternStandard · 04/10/2025 14:41

nomas · 04/10/2025 14:25

You’re not though.

11m was a lie.

8m was a lie.

You just pick out numbers from the air.

Edited
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And your 2.5m figure, a lie?

Myrtletown · 04/10/2025 14:41

EasternStandard · 04/10/2025 14:40

@Myrtletowninterested too

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I asked them to remove the stat and leave the thread. So people can discuss without an unverified number as the start point

Original poster
Uggbootsforever · 04/10/2025 14:41

nomas · 04/10/2025 14:40

Where did I say it’s the right one? I literally said I don’t know, I’m not an economist.

I note you still haven’t apologised for your 11 million lie. Typical.

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Why would I apologise? It’s not a lie, it’s the clearest estimate based on the figures I had. You sound crazy - flinging accusations at everyone yet your ‘position’ doesn’t stand up to the most gentle of questioning.

OP posts:
MyHeartyCoralSnail · 04/10/2025 14:40

The Tories have also said they will withdraw from the ECHR now if the won the next election.so it apoears its days are numbered. The same conversations are going on across much of Europe.

EasternStandard · 04/10/2025 14:40

Bumblebee72 · 04/10/2025 14:36

Again which of these options did you ask them to correct it to?

> 11 million more people since 2000
> 16 million immigrants since 2000, or
> 7 million net immigrants since 2000.

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@Myrtletowninterested too

nomas · 04/10/2025 14:40

Uggbootsforever · 04/10/2025 14:38

Ahhhh. All of the observations but none of the answers. If you don’t know then how do you know the current rate is the right one?

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Where did I say it’s the right one? I literally said I don’t know, I’m not an economist.

I note you still haven’t apologised for your 11 million lie. Typical.

Bumblebee72 · 04/10/2025 14:39

nomas · 04/10/2025 14:37

I’m not an economist, I don’t know the right rate of growth for the UK.

I do know that Tory government played a double game, allowed increased migration whilst at the same time demonising immigrants.

I also note that Tony Blair admitted that he had vastly underestimated how many Eastern European immigrants would come to the UK.

It will be interesting to see whether this Labour government does the same, enjoying the fruits of immigrant taxes whilst demonising them.

I am interested to see how Shabana Mahmood manages the nefarious boat smugglers.

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But all of those factors would lead to high net migration? You believe in the same net migration was much lower than I quoted for the ONS

Myrtletown · 04/10/2025 14:39

interesting - apparently most of those who are anti-immigration self identify as racists!

www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5421742-81-of-those-anti-mass-immigration-identify-as-racists?reply=147590142

nomas · 04/10/2025 14:38

Fingeronthebutton · 04/10/2025 14:34

The official population in the year 2000 was 58 million.
……………………………………..2024 was 69 million.
that’s not counting those that have disappeared after their visa expired and those who weren’t picked up in the channel.
The reason MN havnt deleted the thread is because they’ve looked at the figures.

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What a load of crap. I could post that the Sky is yellow and MN wouldn’t delete it.

EasternStandard · 04/10/2025 14:38

SanctusInDistress · 04/10/2025 14:25

my posts are factually correct. They are based on facts. They are based on legislation. Unlike the twisted half-baked lies coming out of many mouths.

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They are not even that. Your earlier post on the DA and being able to send everyone back ‘no questions asked’ is incorrect.

That is not available to any EU country now. Germany cannot send everyone back to first country of entry for example.

Original poster
Uggbootsforever · 04/10/2025 14:38

nomas · 04/10/2025 14:37

I’m not an economist, I don’t know the right rate of growth for the UK.

I do know that Tory government played a double game, allowed increased migration whilst at the same time demonising immigrants.

I also note that Tony Blair admitted that he had vastly underestimated how many Eastern European immigrants would come to the UK.

It will be interesting to see whether this Labour government does the same, enjoying the fruits of immigrant taxes whilst demonising them.

I am interested to see how Shabana Mahmood manages the nefarious boat smugglers.

Show quote history

Ahhhh. All of the observations but none of the answers. If you don’t know then how do you know the current rate is the right one?

OP posts:
MyHeartyCoralSnail · 04/10/2025 14:38

Myrtletown · 04/10/2025 14:35

MN responded to my report to say it’s a discussion site and people can say what they want within talk guidelines, which apparently don’t include writing blatantly false thread titles to inflame tensions. Interesting….

I once asked them to take a thread down about Trump having a stroke which he clearly hadn’t had - so rest assured it’s not partisan

nomas · 04/10/2025 14:37

Bumblebee72 · 04/10/2025 14:31

Agreed. But which of the correct versions fundamentally would change your view. That she should have 16m immigrants?

Edited
Show quote history

I’m not an economist, I don’t know the right rate of growth for the UK.

I do know that Tory government played a double game, allowed increased migration whilst at the same time demonising immigrants.

I also note that Tony Blair admitted that he had vastly underestimated how many Eastern European immigrants would come to the UK.

It will be interesting to see whether this Labour government does the same, enjoying the fruits of immigrant taxes whilst demonising them.

I am interested to see how Shabana Mahmood manages the nefarious boat smugglers.

Original poster
Uggbootsforever · 04/10/2025 14:37

CatchingtheCat · 04/10/2025 14:20

How much of that could be used for food production? Or is natural space?

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Quite. The interpretation of ‘green space’ being a kids play park or atsroturf is just mental and makes them look devoid of any thinking skills. We’re not bemoaning the lack of trees to gaze at.

OP posts:
Bumblebee72 · 04/10/2025 14:36

Myrtletown · 04/10/2025 14:35

MN responded to my report to say it’s a discussion site and people can say what they want within talk guidelines, which apparently don’t include writing blatantly false thread titles to inflame tensions. Interesting….

Again which of these options did you ask them to correct it to?

> 11 million more people since 2000
> 16 million immigrants since 2000, or
> 7 million net immigrants since 2000.

Myrtletown · 04/10/2025 14:35

MN responded to my report to say it’s a discussion site and people can say what they want within talk guidelines, which apparently don’t include writing blatantly false thread titles to inflame tensions. Interesting….

Original poster
Uggbootsforever · 04/10/2025 14:35

Bumblebee72 · 04/10/2025 14:34

If you spend enough you can reclaim land for the sea. The wealthy are doing it a rapid rate in Dubai.

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And what could possibly go wrong with sea levels and loss of ocean habitat? It’s a mad idea.

OP posts:
Fingeronthebutton · 04/10/2025 14:34

nomas · 04/10/2025 14:25

You’re not though.

11m was a lie.

8m was a lie.

You just pick out numbers from the air.

Edited
Show quote history

The official population in the year 2000 was 58 million.
……………………………………..2024 was 69 million.
that’s not counting those that have disappeared after their visa expired and those who weren’t picked up in the channel.
The reason MN havnt deleted the thread is because they’ve looked at the figures.

Bumblebee72 · 04/10/2025 14:34

Uggbootsforever · 04/10/2025 14:33

The wealthy paying more tax could help a lot of things but it can’t magic up new land.

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If you spend enough you can reclaim land for the sea. The wealthy are doing it a rapid rate in Dubai.

Original poster
Uggbootsforever · 04/10/2025 14:33

thedramaQueen · 04/10/2025 14:27

Agree. People don't want to discuss the solutions especially the very wealth, as many of the solutions involve taking away some of their wealth. For example, renationalising the water industry - this needs to be done it has failed. It pollutes the environment that so many on here seem to care about when it comes to covering it in concrete! It is making profits for it's share holders but delivering a crap service for it's customers. This is just one example, another is house builders sitting on land and not building in order to keep the price of properties high so they can make a huge profit - I read a not so long ago that over 1 million plots of land with potential for housing are currently held by developers, many of which already have planning permission...

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The wealthy paying more tax could help a lot of things but it can’t magic up new land.

OP posts:
Bumblebee72 · 04/10/2025 14:31

nomas · 04/10/2025 14:30

The OP didn’t say 11m population increase, s/he said 11m immigrants. Which is patently false.

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Agreed. But which of the correct versions fundamentally would change your view. That she should have 16m immigrants?

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