AIBU to tell team members to forfeit their breaks

I don't know why people think they're being clever writing as though work is school.

If at work you turned up unprepared for meetings, then I expect you would be reprimanded. If it happened regularly you might end up losing your job. You wouldn't lose your morning break because you don't have one.

And plenty of jobs require uniform, mine doesn't, but I'm sure if I turned up in a skirt as short as the local school children seem to think reasonable, then my line manager would also be having a word.

You may think that it's ever so clever not to bother with silly little rules like being ready to start lessons with the equipment you know you should have, but how annoying for the children who want to learn when half the lesson is taken up with things like that every lesson.
What is wrong with schools is that too many children are going, supported by parents, with the idea that education doesn't matter for them And ignoring rules is to be applauded.

And if you want to pretend that school and workplaces should be the same then note that work typically gets around 5 weeks of Holiday as opposed to 13, a full time job is 9am-5pm as opposed to 8.30-3pm, with often far less responsibility. They're also not going to be let go after 6 months because they were turning up to meetings unprepared and refusing to wear the uniform correctly.

School children are not adults. School is not a job.

An employee who repeatedly arrives unprepared to do their job, fails to follow policies, refuses to wear a required uniform or dress code, disrupts other employees, or mouths off to higher ups will find themselves passed up for advancement at the very least and trying to figure out how they're going to pay their rent eventually.

An employee is at work to do a job for their employer and earn money; the employer has work they need performed and the employee has agreed to do that in exchange for pay. That arrangement continues only as long as the employer finds the employee worth their cost (in terms of financial, cultural impact, time from other employees, client satisfaction) and the employee finds the pay worth the effort.

Students are in school to get an education (and not just an academic one). They aren't being paid, and until they're 16 at least it isn't an optional arrangement on either side. They're not there to do a job for the teachers, they're there so the teachers can help them learn not just academic material but also how to function as part of a group and as an individual with developmentally-appropriate responsibilities. Positive and negative consequences for wanted and unwanted behavior respectively is part of learning.

It's not appropriate for you to try to "punish" or discipline your team members. If their actions are preventing you from getting your work done or might be illegal or a health and safety hazard or violate company policies, report them to your manager and let them take action or give you advice on how to proceed.

Our students have to do corrections in red pens. They rarely have their own. I teach around 340 students and have been allocated 20 red pens for the year.

Team member 4: picked up a virus from team member 5 and ended up in hospital earlier in the year. Obviously team member 4 can’t go on the away day next month as he took time off when ill. Same for team member 6 who took time off for a bereavement.

In my office most people would see not attending the away day as a reward!

I'm sorry to hear your colleaues are behaving in this way. I think the issue is that schools have become too lax these days, and aren't preparing them for the demands of the workplace.

Breaking equipment means the other 1000 or so kids can't use it. When you are trying to navigate school budgets and you realise you can't actually provide enough equipment for kids to get a decent education anyway, and there's some maliciously destroying things so there's even less to go around, yes, it is heartbreaking.

Your heartbroken that resources bought for kids to use actually get used… We’ll it is 19 minutes into Saturday in Mumsnet land!

Regardless of whether or not you think a school needs to be strict, EVERYONE is entitled to a break throughout the day. And more often than not the children that are made to miss those breaks (often for ridiculous reasons/misdemeanours) are the children that most need a break before transitioning from one place/lesson to another.

Some overworked, tired, pissed off teacher thinks Bob forgetting something is so atrocious that he needs to miss a break is only then passing that incident on to the next teacher/lesson. At the next lesson kid hasn't had a break, kid is exhausted, kid forgets something or other because kid didn't get 10 minutes to burn off energy/have a snack/quiet their brain...kid then makes another silly mistake and is reprimanded again. It's bloody ridiculous.

If you’re a manager then god help your team
because you’re a pathetic excuse of one.

I don't disagree. I taught primary in an all-through school and officially the kids had to ask permission but I got round it with getting the kids to mime and I'd give them a thumbs up because it was infuriating having lessons constantly interrupted by the asking.

But...we were contained in one room so if a child forget their blazer it was easy enough to find. If you're going to multiple rooms each day and 100s of other children are also using those rooms, finding a forgotten blazer becomes a problem. (I'm assuming that's the reason for the rule). Asking permission means less abandoned blazers.

1st - They forgot their biro and wanted to borrow one from the stationery cupboard. Big fucking deal.

2nd - Paperless office and cloud solutions have been available for appraisals and other meetings since well before 2020/WFH.

3rd - Someone took off their blazer during a team brief. Big fucking deal.

I do think it’s insane that a teenager can’t take off their own blazer when they’re hot, yes. As a former primary teacher, if a child told me they were hot, I would encourage them to use their initiative and take their jumper off without the need to consult me about it. Then it all seems to go backwards in high school if they’re made to ask permission to take off a thick blazer in the heat. It’s bonkers because they are also wearing shirt and tie, underneath so still smart. I will always think that it’s insane when schools do this and absolutely no way a true reflection of the real world. If I asked my boss if I could please take off my jacket at work, she would think I’d lost the plot.

Good catch.

This looks like a very poorly written, childish attempt at comparing school to an adult workplace 🤦‍♀️

Please god tell me this is some kind off reverse about your own shit manager?

Did you recently use a cafe where women weren’t able to go OP?

I really hope this is some kind of joke OP.

Then don't send your child to school. Home school them.

Or feel free to join the profession and offer your expertise. I'm sure you'd thrive and last more than 1/2 a day sorting out behaviour. 🙄

This is exhausting. Sorry. Just please come out and say what you mean. Or not I guess.

Well you've clearly not taught in a school recently. Let me paint a clearer picture.

Team members 1, 2 and 3 burst into the meeting laughing and pushing and shoving one another. Team member 3 calls team member 1 a fat cunt When it's pointed how inappropriate that is is inappropriate and that they will have to fo overtime if it happens again that the meeting has already begun team member 1 says "I'm not doing anything, why are you always picking on me that's victimisation", team member 2 now swinging on his chair asks "why do we have to have a meeting about this, it's a load of bollocks anyway, my Mum says I don't have to do it if I don't want to". Meanwhile, team member 3 has pinched team membet 4's notebook and has made a paper airplane out of it. Team member 5 wants to go to the toilet and says they are going to piss all over the floor and it's their human right despite only being in the meeting 15 mins. Team member 6 puts their hand up to tell you that team member 1 is looking at them. Team member 1 shouts "why would I be looking at you, your slag". Team member 1 is asked to leave but they refuse and begin shouting about being picked on again. Your boss walks in to observe the meeting and later comments what a car crash it was and what adaptive methods could you adopt to help team members 1, 2 and 3 feel more comfortable because they have mentioned to him that they often don't know what's going on and that you never explain anything to them.

As my DS started high school this year I’m much more aware of the need for order to get them through the school day. He’s making the link himself to kids who are never organised or on time and the level of disruption to teachers and the rest of the class’ learning. Blazers, missing pens etc aren’t the end of the world but cause disruption - I’m not someone who thinks school in any way mirrors the workplace, so the same rules can’t apply. There’s 1,200 kids in his school and there needs to be a sense of order. His school doesn’t create arbitrary rules, aren’t overly strict about uniform and the teachers seem to have good relationships with pupils but they are clear about why rules are there and it’s about getting everyone through the school week intact.