“We need to stop importing people who hate us”

Yeah because no one ever attacks anyone in America! Give me fucking STRENGTH!! 🙄🙄🙄

…then there would be no Mumsnet! ‘Would you/Should I report this person? Would you be offended if someone said this to you? ‘Am I being sensitive?’ ‘Were they being racist?’ So many people having to ask random strangers on an internet forum what they should think or feel!

I never overhear anything good. How do other Mumsnetters do it? And they always remember every word too….

Twat

Oooooh, someone has their dictionary out on a Monday morning. Darling, you amuuuuuuse me 🙄(An extra emoji for ya, as I'm busy now)

I naively believe most people are good and decent and want to live in peace and security. But we have to stand up and say so.

It has to be us.

I dont know what this means. Sounds posh though.

Also. I'm not sure that swearing allegiance to the King or whatever would help. A bit like when I went to the States and was asked in an immigration questionnaire if I'd ever been a member of the communist party. I was clever enough to tick "no" even though I have a tattoo of Karl Marx on my bottom.

Ever considered that there are concatenations of circumstances that result in those kinds of outcomes? Or has oversimplification and eyeroll emojis exhausted your intellectual repertoire?

And no America s habitually shoot each other & weekly school shootings aren’t a thing so it must work… 🙄

Pattern recognition is a basic cognitive function used for successfully navigating life and learning.

How strange that you reject the concept so firmly. Do you just keep making the same mistakes over and over again?

It is true, and it is what fuels so many people’s concerns about immigration (mine included).

It doesn’t mean banning Muslims, I have Muslim family members who are perfectly moderate and peaceful.

But we need to have a better system of assessing motivations for immigration, alignment with our values, and a much more rigorous integration programme (language and culture). Of course, Britain has no money, so that won’t happen.

As a result, it is perfectly easy for individuals with extremist religious views to enter this country, lie low, and inflict devastating violence when the time comes to strike.

7/7, the murder of Lee Rigby, Manchester Arena, London Bridge, Borough Market, Fishmongers’ Hall, the murder of MP David Amis, and now last week’s Yom Kippur attack.

I can name those off the top of my head. I would struggle to name a terror attack carried out by any other affiliate group other than the equally tragic murder of MP Jo Cox (by a member of the far right).

8-1. Off the top of my head.

There is a pattern, and we need to be able to talk about and address it. Until we can, we risk the Balkanisation of our politics, with people fracturing across ethno-nationalist lines, which would be dreadful and have unthinkable consequences for our nation (the nation we all, regardless of skin colour, religious belief or heritage, share).

You might find it interesting to read about the history of British Mirpuris - the majority of British people of Pakistani descent are ultimately from this area, which is a rural conservative area where, e.g., kinship bonds are considered extremely important, cousin marriage is quite common, and your loyalty is to your "clan" rather than a higher nation-state. In the UK this sometimes (not always but disproportionately) translates to e.g. clan based voting or protecting your cousin from the law.

Why is this interesting? Because to @FrauPaige 's question, this knowledge should affect how we run immigration policy.

For example, one proposal I have heard for restricting immigration is that we need to have stricter limits on people coming here on work visas, but any British person should have the right to bring their spouse over ("the one they love") without income limits.

Pakistan is by far one of the top countries for spouse visas, and for the historic reasons mentioned above, in practice this is very often people bringing in relatives from Mirpur & surrounding rural regions, because kin is so important.

It should be obvious that this is the opposite of integration. The reason there are income limits at all is to try to restrict this effect somewhat. It's not because the government thinks it's a problem for a junior nurse to fall in love with an Aussie bartender or something.

So the question is: should the above context be taken into account when setting immigration policy? e.g., rejecting the policy proposal above? Or should we pretend we don't know this?

Funny how you can say this about America, but say this kind of shit about a developing country and somebody will have your post yanked for ‘racism’

Well JHound, when a particular group is disproportionately involved in antisocial behaviors, we tend to notice. Even when we can’t say it (due to social pressure or indeed lack of free speech), we still know it. You know it too, deep down.

How intriguing. Maybe his (whoever he is) views will be shared by someone with with more knowledge.

All I know is the family condemned his actions and two people initially arrested have been released with no charge while a few others are still being questioned.

Except now his views have been revealed and it looks like some people from his family have been arrested on terrorism charges.

Ignore my link title. I cant change it but its just a link to an article

They are a large proportion of Pakistani Muslims

Most of the Rotherham grooming gangs, the problems with integration, cousin marriages etc come from this particular community. They were encouraged to come to the UK to work in the textile factories and due to cousin marriages and girls being sent back to Pakistan ( often girls barely 16 and sometimes against their will) to be married to cousins etc and being brought back to the UK

No, I haven’t.

Have you heard of a place called Mirpur...?

“Pattern recognition” - my dogs ears are bleeding.

This.

Such a simplistic viewpoint by the allegedlY “old Caribbean couple’.

This is a very poor rule to go by. I know and work with various Iraqis and all have made positive lives in the UK. The psychiatrist in my team is Iraqi. There are good people in every country.

Agree it's not hate speech. Common sense of the shallow variety though. That's if it is literally meant that NO-ONE who "hates us" should be "imported".

The Manchester attacker came here as a child and grew up with a father who is a trauma surgeon and who has quickly disowned him and his views. Seems likely that any kind of system for checking the family's desireability as incomers would have given a trained doctor the green light. The only way to make sure absolutely no-one arrives who hates us is to not allow ANYONE to arrive.

Not ‘hate speech’.

Common sense.