I got shouted at in the gym today, AIBU?

I don't think she said there wasn't anyone else in the gym bit, but that there's was no one else in the changing room.

Obviously a short woman was mistaken for a man, as men are notoriously shorter than women on average.

What a strange day you've had OP.
We already know from previous threads that being mis gendered is apparently a daily risk for non-conforming females thanks to those pesky Terfs clarifying the law on single sex provision of services but it seems even short, long-haired, obviously female people like you are now at risk too. Who knew humans were so crap at recognizing sex? It's a miracle we ever pair up!

Blimey - i'm tall and well built with a face that could curdle milk on a bad day - I guess I better be prepared to be challenged from now on. Maybe I could wear some pink, sparkly accessories when I'm next in a public bathroom to avoid the mortifying humiliation of having to open my mouth and briefly clarify that yes I am indeed female 🙄

But there was NO need to shout at the OP. If scrunch bum princess the woman was genuinely concerned she could have spoken to the OP without shouting.

Ooh, OK, will post at least to reply - thank you! Much appreciated.

OP, truly, this wasn't about your appearance. Two issues - 1) the myth that we can't discern sex, and 2) the forced conflation of external appearance of femininity with femaleness - are currently compounding women's insecurities. And understandably so - particularly when you're clearly a lovely person yourself, so are desperately looking for a rational explanation of why the heck someone else would have behaved this way towards you (it sounds awful).

And we can't begin to know that. But what we do know, for almost certain, is that 1) above means they were in no doubt at all that you were female (I mean seriously, how many 5 foot 3 European men have you ever seen? how many times in your life have you not been able to sex someone yourself? - for me, I think it's maybe twice?), and so 2) above is an irrelevance anyway! It simply wasn't about your appearance as a woman. It just wasn't.

It was all about shouty-woman's issues! (Maybe her own insecurities? So often the reason for bullying behaviours).

I won't post again as I don't want to derail your thread, but I desperately hope the current poisonous concept of pretty-passports for single-sex spaces will die down. It's not yet a thing, and it doesn't have to be one, unless me make it so by accepting the idea and letting it influence our thoughts and behaviour.

99.9% of the time, women can discern sex. Perhaps .1% of the time, we can't, OK. But far, far higher than that vanishingly unlikely .1% of the time is the depressingly high probability of encountering angry, insecure, bullies or total weirdos in public spaces! This was the issue here, OP. You were unlucky.

I wish you happy gym-ing in the future. You'll get back to it - you're clearly a far stronger person than me in that respect, gym-wimp that I am!

What other people? You said there was only one other person in there with you

It's wrong to blame feminists for this.

If transwomen hadn't invaded opposite sex facilities in the first place, no one would have reason to doubt anyone.

Women's and girl's safety is more important than any amount of hurt feelings.

This ♥️

You don’t have to be feminine to use a women’s only space. This woman’s behaviour was uncalled for. Please don’t blame yourself.

If you really want to try a gym can I suggest something like an 'Everyone Active' type place? Far more 'normal/genuine people than posers than scrunch bum legging wearers.

Except quite evidently people can’t always immediately tell the difference between men & women. The lady in OP’s gym couldn’t, the other woman in this poster’s experience couldn’t, there’s a person I work with and until they themselves referred to themselves as “she” I would never have been sure.

It’s not always obvious, that’s life.

Would definitely inform the gym of this ladies strange behaviour, it’s unacceptable to shout at another adult for any reason so she needs to be spoken with.

also, and this is said with 15 years of fitness industry experience, 5 of which in management, I have never encountered an asthma attack triggered by aerosols in a changing room (not to say it can’t happen) nor have experienced a gym/fitness facility banning deodorant so it’s not your fault that you didn’t know… many gyms provide aerosol deodorants in their changing rooms as a complimentary product for their members.

please don’t be so hard on yourself

It isn't. It's appalling.

What has that got to do with being anti trans? You are a woman, the other woman shouldn't have stopped you. What you wear is irrelevant. People can tell the difference between men and women FFS. Stop pretending they can't.

That's awful, I'm so sorry.

I'm unattractive, and I have found that a minority of people can be, I assume, annoyed by the sight of me and choose to target me. The only way is to stand up for yourself and don't let any such incidents make you doubt yourself.

Unless you are asthmatic or otherwise affected by sprays, you might not see why it's an issue, BUT quite a few people have explained the issue now, so can't you just accept it IS an issue for many?? Just because your gym doesn't have signs up, doesn't mean it's not a problem.

Given you say it was 3 small sprays, she MAY have over reacted, but she MAY be very sensitive to it.

(by the way, body spray doesn't mask the smell of BO, it just adds a sickly sweet smell to the mix & makes it more unpleasant)

I can't believe a woman carried on like that about you being a man??? How incredibly rude!! Some people feel so 'empowered' to challenge others now they feel unable to control themselves. Maybe she'd left her glasses in her locker!

Don't let the rude 'woman' put you off going to the gym. I know that's easier said than done, but the more you practice not giving a fuck, the easier it gets!!

I used to go to the gym to build muscle/get fit/ etc etc all the usual. Now I go, as I had a stroke, for rehabilitation exercises. I potter about doing what I can manage, looking ineffectual & pathetic, I'm sure many wonder what the actual point is if they notice what I'm doing. But I've had to learn to not 'give a fuck' & get on with it.

I'll catch up with the rest of the thread now. I hope you've reported her by now.

Yeah that one is annoying.

Dear goodness. Enough with the listing of hypothetical "what-we-could-do"s - your knicker-dropping inspections above are frankly really unsettling.

Needless to say, there's no need for any of this. Just:

1. Empathise with female victims of male violence who feel unable to share spaces with males and are now finding their freedom of movement limited as well as with trans people.

2. On the basis of, then

a) Support the social contract of male- and female-only spaces (this meant that, just 15 years ago, your post would have been met with raised eyebrows at least as all we needed was a simple, shared understanding of the law, and that the law would, bar an inevitable minority of exceptions, be followed)

and

b) Campaign for improved provision of third spaces, whether fully enclosed rooms or mixed-sex spaces for those content to use them.

3. Meanwhile, don't fear-monger. It doesn't help either of these vulnerable groups, or women like the OP, and risks coming across as vicarious.

I’m so sorry that happened to you. That woman was completely in the wrong and should be mortified and ashamed. This is why I find all the anti-trans arguments re toilets etc difficult because what are we going to do? Inspect people’s private parts before they enter somewhere? I’m all for feminism and protecting women but I also think people need to chill a bit. Unless someone is being obviously offensive/creepy/harassing people in any way then mind your own business about what their gender/sex is because, who cares?

During a bad snow storm last year I nipped into the toilets in Tesco only to be confronted by a woman who said I was in “the wrong toilets” and looking down her nose at me. The snow had come very suddenly but I always have spare warm clothes in the car in winter (I’m always caught out in bad weather!) so chucked them on. I was wearing navy jogging bottoms, an old coat of my partners and a black bobble hat. Granted, I looked as though I was wearing stereotypical ‘male’ clothes. But Christ. What do we do then? Carry a skirt around for times when we want to use the ladies toilets? Or just go in the men’s if we’re ’dressed that way’. It was bizarre; I didn’t know what to say. How do I explain that I’m a woman? What if I had a flat chest? Do I drop my knickers to prove it? Absolute weirdo imo

Have RTFT (or skimmed, at least) now - always try to before commenting.

OP, I can see how distressing it was for you and am so sorry you went through this. I'd second other posters' comments that this was certainly (not even almost certainly, but absolutely certainly!) about the shouty woman and not you. It's such strange behaviour. I don't like speculating about eg. mental illness (and still less about FWR board posters - if anyone drops by, you'll see that we tend to be the ones resisting the personal insults and aggression - just like we resist any policing of femininity!) but rest assured that it wasn't rational behaviour.

FWIW, I've only had the courage to set foot in gyms twice, each time for a tour, before scarpering in terror. Kudos to any regular gym-goer who doesn't fit the gym-bunny stereotype! OP, your resolve has (and I genuinely mean this) actually edged me an inch or two closer in my resolve to try another gym tour and maybe, just maybe, actually pay a joining fee this time around... (before, no doubt, not attending for several wasteful months, but it would be progress... of a sort... right?!)

Oh, also, firmly with team limit-deoderant-spraying. Bad memories of choking on the cool girls' Impulse after PE lessons. (It's probably not helped the gym phobia).

Spraying in changing room - not cool
Shouting at you - also not cool

But the shouting is worse than spraying. Definitely complain.