Page 3 | To feel a bit bad for the met police on bbc panorama undercover

Bloodyscarymary · 2025-10-01T20:46:43+00:00

Just watching the BBC Panorama doco “Undercover in the Police” and I can’t help feeling a bit uneasy. Yes, the behaviour shown is awful and they should lose their jobs, but having their faces, names and secretly recorded conversations, sometimes even off duty over a pint broadcast feels like a bit of a violation of privacy. I honestly would have thought secret filming like that couldn’t even be made public, but clearly it’s legal or the BBC wouldn’t air it. I’m not excusing what was said at all. The culture clearly needs to change. But is it fair to single out these particular officers when the problem is obviously widespread? I also felt some of the more junior officers had just absorbed the culture around them, and at times the journalist might have been nudging them into certain topics. A few of the comments even felt like dark humour or going along with pub chat. Still unacceptable, but if you secretly recorded doctors or other professions that probably use a lot of dark humour to get through it, I’m sure you’d hear things that would seem really callous to an outsider. Absolutely they should be fired/reprimanded, but do they deserve complete public exposure like this? AIBU to feel uncomfortable about it? YABU they deserve everything that’s coming their way YANBU it’s too much personal exposure when the real problem is the Met culture not these individual cops

Mimph · 04/10/2025 23:40

I think there is a difference between what is said in the work place and what is said outside the workplace . I believe that people are allowed to have views of their own, an employer does not own your thoughts. Having said that expressing these views in a pub is ill advised for those who work in govt or public services.

Maggiethecat · 04/10/2025 23:30

Paul2023 · 04/10/2025 23:01

There’s a difference though. The police are in the public eye constantly, they have to deal with wind up merchants filming them , shoving camera phones in their faces whilst doing a job.

This documentary has arguably made every single decent policies officers job harder.

Care home staff, children’s home staff aren’t in the public eye so wouldn’t face the abuse that police officers do.

They don’t have to contend with people trying to wind them up whilst filming them.

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So it’s the wind up merchants that brought out the worst in these cops, views and behaviour that they would not normally hold 🙄

Doingtheboxerbeat · 04/10/2025 23:18

Paul2023 · 04/10/2025 23:01

There’s a difference though. The police are in the public eye constantly, they have to deal with wind up merchants filming them , shoving camera phones in their faces whilst doing a job.

This documentary has arguably made every single decent policies officers job harder.

Care home staff, children’s home staff aren’t in the public eye so wouldn’t face the abuse that police officers do.

They don’t have to contend with people trying to wind them up whilst filming them.

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It's a tough gig for sure, there's no way I could do it - buttttt there's nothing but nothing that could make me say or do certain things that are fundamentally against my nature . I would or could fight violently for my life, but I could never say something that contained a slur for example - I'm more likely to speak a sentence in Russian .

Paul2023 · 04/10/2025 23:01

Happyjoe · 04/10/2025 09:09

Why? Because you want them to throw their toys out the pram because some bad police have been caught out?
Do you feel the same with carers who abuse the elderly in care homes? What about those who abuse children in children's homes? Your logic is off. I guess you are a copper/know a copper.

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There’s a difference though. The police are in the public eye constantly, they have to deal with wind up merchants filming them , shoving camera phones in their faces whilst doing a job.

This documentary has arguably made every single decent policies officers job harder.

Care home staff, children’s home staff aren’t in the public eye so wouldn’t face the abuse that police officers do.

They don’t have to contend with people trying to wind them up whilst filming them.

Paul2023 · 04/10/2025 22:56

TooBigForMyBoots · 04/10/2025 00:56

💯

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What risk exactly did he take though ? It’s right that people are held to account and face disciplinary action, but that could have been done without broadcasting this.

Every decent honest police officer in the country now has a harder job to do and this has put them more in danger.

Im sorry but I disagree with journalists joining a job under false pretences. Whatever the intention is for.

Isitmybathtimeyet · 04/10/2025 22:11

godmum56 · 04/10/2025 21:34

Nope.

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I have, but I do a job where my being rude about one of my bosses in the pub is utterly inconsequential, and has no bearing on anyone or anything other than probably their feelings. And any other feelings I might express would be as meaningless as I don’t say or think the sort of things these officers said and my workmates would be horrified if I expressed those views.

Firefly1987 · 04/10/2025 21:34

Violation of privacy? Are you kidding?! You realise you're talking about the police who are violating people's privacy on a daily basis-and not always people who are criminals. I couldn't give a fuck they got recorded and exposed as being arseholes. I celebrate it in fact.

godmum56 · 04/10/2025 21:34

Evan456 · 04/10/2025 20:42

Never ever called your boss names then when they’ve pissed you off? I do think I was edited to suit the agenda, seen it many times before

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Nope.

Praying4Peace · 04/10/2025 21:10

What I find particularly harrowing is that police officers admitted to lying and coercing with each other to say that the person in custody had kicked them. This was to justify the officer kicking him.
Absolutely dispicable. The person who is caught up in the cjs is at the mercy of the police force being fair.
This is corruption in the extreme.
As someone who has connections with someone who was arrested and convicted, this makes me tremble

Evan456 · 04/10/2025 20:42

godmum56 · 03/10/2025 22:53

as I said upthread, you could get me ratarsed and I would never say such things. In vino veritas and all that.

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Never ever called your boss names then when they’ve pissed you off? I do think I was edited to suit the agenda, seen it many times before

SemiRetiredLoveGoddeess · 04/10/2025 17:00

I think quite a few men say just as bad things about women when they are with their mates.

It is a man thing and the Police are no different. They think it is their divine right because they are men. Oar for the course

Deep down they are very insecure and have a real hatred of women who they see as wortless.

Skodacool · 04/10/2025 16:00

The problem is not dark humour, it’s the carrying of attitudes into the job.
Believe me though, all Met officers are not rotten; I know.

pikkumyy77 · 04/10/2025 13:11

Bloodyscarymary · 04/10/2025 12:11

Yes I totally agree, it seems that the ability to assess something from all sides, understand perspectives without agreeing with them, be curious about root causes rather than quick to write people off as scum are in short supply these days.

I am left wing myself and actually work in a role that is related to promoting DEI but I am still able to converse with people who disagree with all of that and understand that their views can be driven by different priorities, misunderstanding, fear, exposure to online misinformation driven by algorithms etc.

It is very rare that a person is truly evil - “never attribute to malice that which can be explained by ignorance” is a good life motto!

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That breaks down in the face of proven criminality and malice though. Its a fine rule if thumb if you don’t have much information but in this case we have a lot of information.

thepariscrimefiles · 04/10/2025 13:02

YourAmplePlumPoster · 04/10/2025 09:01

The police should go on strike for a week and see how everyone gets on. I'm sure the defund the police lot would step up to do the job.

The police aren't allowed to strike so if they did this, they would lose their jobs. Given the violence that South Yorkshire police used on the picket lines during the Miners' Strike, they don't have a lot of sympathy or empathy with unions and striking workers.

thepariscrimefiles · 04/10/2025 12:54

MyHeartyCoralSnail · 04/10/2025 07:45

Maybe you don’t have a stressful job dealing with all the dregs of society - what do you do for a living?

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But other officers that were filmed, such as the female officers, also deal with 'the dregs of society' but they aren't mouthing off with a load of racist and misogynistic opinions. They also have to deal with the sergeant who sounds like a sex offender.

godmum56 · 04/10/2025 12:40

alfonzi · 04/10/2025 12:30

Agreed, but at this point I suspect they’re exhibiting wilful ignorance.

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also wilful idiocy......also also I do have to wonder what the "they weren't at work" defenders have to hide?.......what their views "expressed in the pub after a few drinks" would be?

godmum56 · 04/10/2025 12:40

Bloodyscarymary · 04/10/2025 12:29

My original OP wasn’t about them not deserving to be disciplined/fired because of what they said at the pub, I agree that clearly brings profession into disrepute and is probably gross misconduct.

The OP was about publicising their identities for the whole world to watch - a dire consequence for them personally that I don’t think they would ever have considered happening to them. Imagine waking up the next day being like, god I wonder what I said last night, usually the worst that would happen is you are reported and fired. You being filmed and put in a bbc documentary is the stuff of nightmares.

I would say the public interest was in using the recorded examples as an illustration of widespread culture issues. But we didn’t really need to know the identity of individual officers to achieve the aim of the doco. It’s always about weighing up benefit vs harm and I think the decision was wrong in this case, but very happy to hear differing viewpoints and see that I am in the minority!

The BBC has guidance around secret recordings:

The subject of the secret recording may be a single and very specific individual target responsible for wrongdoing, or it may be a number of people with varying degrees of responsibility. Sometimes it may be appropriate to secretly record individuals who are representative of a particular group… When content makers do that they will have to consider the public interest in exploring those patterns of behaviour, and whether it will be appropriate to identify the individuals or organisations in the broadcast material…..

When the prima facie evidence is against a group, but not against specific individuals or organisations within that group, content makers should normally disguise the identity of the individuals when the material is broadcast, unless they consent to being identified or their behaviour is such that there is a clear public interest in exposing their identity.

www.bbc.com/editorialguidelines/guidance/secret-recording

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and? I think that according to the BBC guidance, the program absolutely fits within the allowable parameters. I think that the "dire consequences" are absolutely merited.

alfonzi · 04/10/2025 12:30

godmum56 · 04/10/2025 12:04

Yup and I think people who contuinue to post this "oh it wasn't at work" "it was said privately" bollocks need to RTFT because this has been said several times.

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Agreed, but at this point I suspect they’re exhibiting wilful ignorance.

Original poster

Bloodyscarymary · 04/10/2025 12:29

godmum56 · 04/10/2025 12:04

Yup and I think people who contuinue to post this "oh it wasn't at work" "it was said privately" bollocks need to RTFT because this has been said several times.

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My original OP wasn’t about them not deserving to be disciplined/fired because of what they said at the pub, I agree that clearly brings profession into disrepute and is probably gross misconduct.

The OP was about publicising their identities for the whole world to watch - a dire consequence for them personally that I don’t think they would ever have considered happening to them. Imagine waking up the next day being like, god I wonder what I said last night, usually the worst that would happen is you are reported and fired. You being filmed and put in a bbc documentary is the stuff of nightmares.

I would say the public interest was in using the recorded examples as an illustration of widespread culture issues. But we didn’t really need to know the identity of individual officers to achieve the aim of the doco. It’s always about weighing up benefit vs harm and I think the decision was wrong in this case, but very happy to hear differing viewpoints and see that I am in the minority!

The BBC has guidance around secret recordings:

The subject of the secret recording may be a single and very specific individual target responsible for wrongdoing, or it may be a number of people with varying degrees of responsibility. Sometimes it may be appropriate to secretly record individuals who are representative of a particular group… When content makers do that they will have to consider the public interest in exploring those patterns of behaviour, and whether it will be appropriate to identify the individuals or organisations in the broadcast material…..

When the prima facie evidence is against a group, but not against specific individuals or organisations within that group, content makers should normally disguise the identity of the individuals when the material is broadcast, unless they consent to being identified or their behaviour is such that there is a clear public interest in exposing their identity.

www.bbc.com/editorialguidelines/guidance/secret-recording

OP posts:

DancingLions · 04/10/2025 12:14

I can’t actually watch this documentary because I know it would massively trigger me. I was raped and every aspect of the investigation was handled appallingly to the point that the officer in charge got a written warning. This was the Met police. The man who raped me got away with it because vital evidence was “lost”. I was left so traumatised by the whole thing I would never now encourage someone to report a rape to the police. I think if I watched that documentary it would set me back massively. So yeah I’m a little hard pressed to find any sympathy for any of the people involved.

Original poster

Bloodyscarymary · 04/10/2025 12:11

FeetLikeFlippers · 03/10/2025 20:57

I kind of understand what you mean because yes their behaviour was abhorrent and they deserve whatever they get, but if it was a journalist who recorded their off-duty conversations then it makes me question the journalist’s motive - they say it’s because the public deserves transparency but surely it’s more to do with getting a scoop. I’d also bet that the same kind of misogynistic shit goes on in newspaper offices as well! I like that you are able to see the grey areas, I’m constantly surprised at how many people can’t, and sadly that is how politicians and the media are able to manipulate people so easily and reinforce the whole “us and them” divisive thing.

Edited

Yes I totally agree, it seems that the ability to assess something from all sides, understand perspectives without agreeing with them, be curious about root causes rather than quick to write people off as scum are in short supply these days.

I am left wing myself and actually work in a role that is related to promoting DEI but I am still able to converse with people who disagree with all of that and understand that their views can be driven by different priorities, misunderstanding, fear, exposure to online misinformation driven by algorithms etc.

It is very rare that a person is truly evil - “never attribute to malice that which can be explained by ignorance” is a good life motto!

OP posts:

godmum56 · 04/10/2025 12:04

sashh · 04/10/2025 11:57

It doesn't matter if it was in work or not. It is bringing 'the profession' in to disrepute.

I put the profession in quotes as by a lot of measures it isn't a profession.

Teachers, doctors, nurses, solicitors, you name it can be disciplined for things outside work.

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Yup and I think people who contuinue to post this "oh it wasn't at work" "it was said privately" bollocks need to RTFT because this has been said several times.

sashh · 04/10/2025 11:57

YourAmplePlumPoster · 03/10/2025 18:54

Depends on what you think is public interest. These guys weren't in the workplace but a wee bit pissed after work in a pub and led on by a reporter. Did they behave unprofessionally in the workplace is what is required to be examined. If not, then I doubt their dismissal would stand.

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It doesn't matter if it was in work or not. It is bringing 'the profession' in to disrepute.

I put the profession in quotes as by a lot of measures it isn't a profession.

Teachers, doctors, nurses, solicitors, you name it can be disciplined for things outside work.

FlubandSlub · 04/10/2025 11:41

queenofthewild · 01/10/2025 22:00

DH’s oldest friend joined the Met. When his friend was getting married, DH went on the stag. He’s never regretted anything more in his life. A whole weekend away with sexist misogynistic pigs. DH had no idea his friend was anything like that until he saw him with his work colleagues and they had been friends since they were small children. It’s endemic and it needs to be brought out in the open.

Cop culture exists in all forces not just the Met and has done for decades. My brother, who is now retired, was mocked with the nickname "Serpico" because he refused to conform or be a party to this type of behavior when he joined the police force. He felt isolated and sadly was eventually worn down with bullying by colleagues and senior officers.

Isitmybathtimeyet · 04/10/2025 10:37

I work with police forces and a lot of senior officers will be head in hands this weekend over this. We saw the reaction of Sue Fish and others in the programme (incidentally I wonder what they would say to the long justifying post upthread from the Police Jokes guy). They are well aware that the lack of public trust in the police is the fault of the bad coppers not the people who whistleblow on them.