To feel a bit bad for the met police on bbc panorama undercover

So most of us have made comments like that about autistic people? Or pregnant women who've been kicked in the stomach?

I haven’t seen the full documentary yet, just some choice clips.

The comments shown were awful but sadly not surprising. Time and again the police in this country are shown to be racist and misogynistic.

The problem is that when there’s such a harmful culture, it doesn’t leave any room for banter or edgy humour. The police put themselves in dangerous situations every day to protect the public and many witness terrible sights. I think it would be natural to share a gallows style humour that others outside the force might find a bit distasteful.

But when you have such a damaged culture everything gets seen through that lens. And when there are things being said which are so utterly unacceptable, nothing will be tolerated when brought out for scrutiny. I’m talking about “jokes” that might be a bit blokey or laddish without being genuinely misogynistic - when the culture is so toxic, nothing even remotely off-colour is ok because it all contributes.

I didn’t find any of the comments to be acceptable. None of what I heard could be written off as a harmless joke. That comment about taking fingerprints by force and snapping tendons was chilling.

The Met isn’t learning. The problem is that no matter how many diversity courses you send someone on, if they are racist and sexist, they’re not going to change. The only way is a full clear out but that’s not possible when we rely on the police for law and order, now more than ever.

It just shows you that the extreme distrust many women now have if approached by the police is probably well justified. Same goes for non-white folk.

There are undoubtedly good people in the police force. But too many are attracted to the job because of the power it gives them which is a terrible basis for a position of trust.

I know, I was just trying to ascertain who was committing it.

Yes ofc there is a sex assault problem with many Muslim countries. We all know that.

Hang on, so who is racially abusing white police officers? Ethnic minority criminals presumably as it wouldn't make sense for a white criminal/suspect to abuse a white police officer for being white.

Of course white officers get abused for being white…. Oh wait, you can’t be racist against white people.

why do you think the government doesn’t produce stats of crimes by nationality… because it woukd show the reality of what’s happening. Denmark do this and it’s very telling as to whose committing crimes there.

the amount of abuse police receive must be s joke…. It’s a bloody hard job these days as people.

not every police officer is a Wayne cousins, just like not every doctor is a Harold shipman.

What about the sexual comments at work that made the female officers upset? Or the horrible comment about the pregnant woman kicked in the stomach?

Yes I am. Everyone has the potential to get racially abused, in stressful cicumstances when peoples executive functioning is compromised. You just pick the thing that is different about them.

Yes joking about horrific things is a way of dealing with it. I have worked in healthcare I have seen horrific things, so I know first hand.

Remember we are only seeing a certain amount of footage- probably the worst, taken over a long period of time, we haven't seen the hundreds of hours of footage that was taken.

Tbf there does seem to be a problem of midwives often being callous, and care home staff.

Are you saying white police officers are getting racially abused for thro ethnicity? Not questioning, just trying to clarify.

Also the comment about the poor pregnant woman who was kicked : was THAT just letting off steam?

I get what you’re saying OP.

The behaviour on show was completely horrific and the individuals deserve to be punished.

What feels uncomfortable is that the men are part of a culture (often products of it) who will take the hit on behalf of everyone who contributes to that culture. They will lose their careers and reputations, and much much more, while others, equally culpable, walk free.

It’s the culture that stinks - so I also feel that some of the men’s identities should have been hidden. The young guy in the pub has probably been exposed to this kind of talk since he joined the force and it’s been normalised - then like you say was being egged on. I imagine he’s weak and foolish and wanted to fit in - as well as being a horrific racist.

Is there anyone amongst us who hasn’t had a conversation or exhibited behaviour that makes them squirm with discomfort to think about? Luckily for us it never got broadcast on national TV.

To reiterate, I am in no way excusing these racist, misogynistic thugs and it’s absolutely horrifying to think they are responsible for policing our streets. But I agree OP, something feels off.

Surely all investigative journalism breaches confidentiality though, by nature?

It is a tough horrible job and sometimes it attracts tough horrible people. There should be robust processes aimed at weeding them out.

Most of the time attracts normal people who care about their community, but need to decompress after a night shift of being spat at, punched, racially abused. Not to mention the huge spikes in aderenalines, and seeing horrific scenes that include child assault. Humour in such horrific circumstances is a trauma response.

The BBC has not done society any favours by conducting an investigation in this way. I can be sure that if we had an undercover reporter at any type of complaints unit, or hospital they would be able to find some footage of normal people managing their emotions in the same way after dealing with stressed members of the general public.

Of course the police also fo these things-the Met is responsible for one of the most horrendous violations of privacy and confidentiality in human history by planting undercover police in innocent activist communities and having sex and even children with unwitting women and then abandoning these women and children without a backwards glance. So can we have a little less of this convenient aphasia and a little less pearl clutching over the technique used by the press to get these men on record?

This was caught on film though, sustained undercover filming. And we have evidence of police misconduct, lots of it - the 2 murdered sisters who were joked about, for one.

It seemed very ironic they were complaining about immigrant rape culture (which IS worse for some who come from patriarchal countries like Afghanistan) but then dismiss that poor woman kicked in the stomach while pregnant.

Like the men who go to TR rallies about 'protecting our women' & then commit DV. Or the recent 'vigilante' who got had up for DV.

It's not really about protecting women to men like that, it's about controlling them.

Who the f…k still watches the Biased Broadcasting Corp? Given their history for impartiality and inaccuracy, I wouldn’t give credence to anything they broadcast. Doh

This.
I don’t feel bad for them - if you feel free to say it you must feel free to own it.
Don’t forget that these are the people who may attend an incident involving you, your children or family member when you are at your most vulnerable and needing caring and supportive assistance. We shouldn’t live in a society where you have a chance of being victimised by those you call for help

I actually think the BBC were goading the situation and do not agree with your post.

I have just seen you spout similar crap on the discussion about labour v reform

i think you probably just need to take a break, or bot off

YABVVVVU

They are a disgrace to their uniform and their force.
They bring their fellow officers into disrepute.
They bring the principle of equality under the law into serious question.

They swore to uphold the law and adhere to the professional standards that are there to protect not just the public but also the force Itself.

The only person I feel sorry for is the pregnant woman who was raped and kicked by her abusive partner, and trusted the police to help her.

@Bloodyscarymary The ones that made me particularly uncomfortable are the off duty conversations, or the jokey things that were clearly just bravado

Being off duty is no excuse.

Misogynistic and damaging things being said as a “joke” is no excuse.

“Just” bravado is no excuse.

STOP enabling the deeply misogynistic systemic system. Please just stop.

This behaviour from trained educated professionals who are supposed to have a duty of care and keep us safe - needs calling the fuck out! Every single one of them need to realise what they are contributing to. These types of men need calling out. They need calling out publicly. They need calling out by their friends, by their family, by their colleagues.

If the Met can't sort this themselves this is badly needed.

My thoughts exactly ☝🏼

Some years ago my friend asked me to go with her to the West End CID Christmas Party (basically detectives based at Charing Cross). My friend had been a witness in a court case and a policeman involved asked her if she wanted to come (which was weird enough).

Anyway we went out of curiosity and it was pretty jaw dropping even as Xmas parties go. Some very poor behaviour and a lot of fighting. We left within an hour because we were worried it was going to get out of hand, and because almost every policemen in central London was already at this party, nobody could call the police.

None of what was on Panorama surprises me in the slightest.

YABCU