To feel a bit bad for the met police on bbc panorama undercover

Your ignorance shines through.

You're suggesting that fewer than 120 sexual assaults are committed by Met officers each year. This seems extremely unlikely - I'm sure the number is much higher.

You know that there are over 33,000 Met officers?

You realise that statistically, male police officers are more likely than almost any other group to perpetrate domestic violence - which often includes sexual violence - against their partners? (some of whom are female police officers)

That's without all the cases of police officers sexually assaulting/ raping other people. There are lots of cases which have come to light - incl instances of them targeting vulnerable women who have been victims of crime.

There are various theories about why they behave in these ways. But it's clear that the Met has both a culture of toxic masculinity & a culture of impunity (with officers lying & falsifying evidence to back each other up, minimising other officers' misconduct and ignoring criminal abuses of power).

how do you feel about undercover policing? undercover officers impregnating women who have no idea of their real identity?

They should be held to a (much much) higher standard than regular people

Yes, secretly recording people when they think they are in a private setting shouldn’t be allowed. Do we really want to do back to the dark old days of the Fake Sheik?

I save my sympathy for people who deserve it

And also can’t people see the problem with misogynist and racist police officer. Don’t they realise how this WILL affect how they treat members of the public?

I haven’t watched it all yet, just saw a clip but from what I’ve seen views and attitudes like that are incompatible with good, fair and safe policing.

the Met Police should be worried. IMO they need to all reapply for their jobs and be properly vetted to do so.

Off duty and in public. Members of the public would already have overheard it.

Yes true, I have seem some ex-Met police officers on Twitter who speak out against the organisation a lot.

One of them had a partner/wife who was Black, and many close friends from various races which is obviously not something the other officers would instantly know and you can imagine how uncomfortable he was in his job each day with the things being said.

Although not that you need a black partner or friend to find the stuff being said abhorrent.

I found it uncomfortable viewing. I think the officers who were misogynistic/ sadistic / racist while on duty were fair game however, the police are entitled to their opinions and recording conversations when they were off duty and expressing personal opinions was not right imho.

This. It's the same with any big organisation with a reputation for a particular behaviour ( religious organisations and paedophiles being another one). That organisation will attract certain types and those people will fit at interview and be taken on. Anyone who joins the police because they want to do something good will either leave in horror or become part of the banter/ arsehole culture

I also felt uncomfortable watching it, the officer’s behaviour was awful and must be dealt with, I did think the journalist was inciting some of it though
to be honest

I have little sympathy really. If you didn't have those opinions then you wouldn't voice them.

How can you trust people with those opinions to behave responsibly. Its scary to think that you might be on the receiving end.

They recruit like minded individuals and add to the rot.
Expose them all.

I hope I never ever need to call the police. I wouldn't trust a male police officer as far as I could throw him.

Someone could film me secretly at work and it would be fine as I would never say anything inappropriate or hateful because I don’t think that way.
It’s about time for the rotten police to face some serious consequences.

Exactly, this was my first thought.

Some countries do actually have strict regulations on reporting names on the media. I believe Germany has.

But here in the UK they publish the names of convicted criminals or those caught on video doing crimes all the time.

Why make an exception for the police? Genuine question. I don’t get it lol what would be the logic or justification for this?

They’ve never happened in any workplace I’ve been in and we work with some of the most vulnerable - and yes at difficult - people, at the worst times in their lives.

They weren’t “telling the truth” they were telling their truth based on bias, racism and hatred of women. Letting off steam doesn’t remotely cover it - I’d be in front of my regulator if I said the same things and rightly so. If the job is so hard that they can’t exercise common decency and respect, that “blowing off steam” amounts to prejudice, aggression and misogyny they need to do something else. That behaviour and those views + power is a wholly toxic mix which should be exposed every single time and the perpetrators sacked, arrested and charged.

This thread is so depressing and worrying.My DD wants to join the police- county not Met. I wonder if the culture is as bad outside the Met? Anyone have any insights?

Should we do the same for the loved ones of the general public who brag about or discuss their crimes and proclivities, and get recorded?
Or get caught and prosecuted and the stories and evidence of what's come out of their own mouths hits the news?
What about those spouting racist diatribe, whose families are appalled?
Police officer? Protect him? Reform sympathizer? Don't protect him?

Does being at work in a public service uniform at the time, mean your family should be more, or less, protected from the repercussions of your actions?

What is it about the appalled families of criminals or racists, that mean they shouldn't be protected from being "ostracised, their homes vandalised along with them being verbally and in some cases physically attacked for their loved ones views/behaviour when they are as appalled as everyone else."

I'm just raising the question of who's wider circles are and aren't worthy of protection, and maybe all these big mouthed individuals of whatever stripes need to be putting many others ahead of their desires, rather than we have one rule for one group, and another rule for others...

Well you're a lovely person 🙄

Second reply nails it.

I remember when I first saw ACAB I thought like you - surely not every single cop, bad apples etc etc.

I've been in and around protest and campaign groups for two decades now and I firmly believe it, going off the behaviour and attitudes I've witnessed from police officers, almost without exception.

The structural reason that ACAB is true is that the police (and military) aren't actually there to protect us, the people. They're there to protect and if necessary enforce what the state wants. When your interests align with the state's interests it's easy to conflate those things, but anyone who's protested against the state or is part of a marginalised demographic (Black and LGBT communities) knows instinctively that the police are not on their side. A lot of middle-class white women learned this very, very quickly during the Sarah Everard protests.

When you see Iranian police stamping out the Mahsa Amini protests by force, or the Hong Kong police squashing pro-democracy protests - please be under no illusion. Our police force would do exactly the same thing if the government demanded it.

To your point about the kind of person these professions attract, I completely agree. By their very nature the police and military attract people with authoritarian characteristics, who believe in the rule of might and the use of force to stamp out dissent.

Agree wonder what would come to light in their own canteen of the BBC if there was undercover filming given their misogynistic, child sex abuse culture?

The BBC that gives Nigel Farage airtime far in excess of that his number of MPs warrants but doesn't give the Greens anything like the same? That left wing BBC?

I can’t believe people are still using the term ’bad apples’ to refer to the met. This is a force which has been found to be institutionally racist and misogynistic. At one point they were investigating 1000 of their officers for domestic abuse and other forms of abuse and harassment. The Centre for Women’s Justice had to bring a super complaint against them and other forces because of their failure to deal with domestic abuse properly. There are numerous cases where they have failed.

They are public servants and we need to hold them to a higher standard than minimising it all as ‘bad apples’