LACK OF POTTY TRAINING BEFORE STARTING SCHOOL.

I agree OP. The level of need in many of our Reception children now is higher than ever. Many still in nappies, can't hold a basic conversation, sit at a table to eat, drink from a cup, take off their own coat. Impossible to actually teach whilst all this is going on.

My mum taught reception age for donkeys years. If children with no additional needs weren’t trained she would phone the parents to come and clean up after every accident and encourage them to take a week off to nail toilet training. It worked every time they were forced. Also, there was a time when teachers weren’t allowed to do intimate care for the kids.

Agreed! I think the younger, the better. Mine wanted attention and praise when they were little, what better way of giving them it than potty training. We had a potty in every bathroom from their first birthday. They could sit on it, play with it - it was just there. Just before they were two, we did a week of staying in, bare bums, stamp charts, cheering every wee or poo that went in the right place. It worked- both out of nappies by 2.

At 4 they were so engrossed in whatever they were playing with, didn’t want to stop their game and were much more likely to get caught short! It is definitely harder to train a child in this phase.

Yep.

I've had one or two people on previous threads like this want to know every last detail of my son's medical history to attempt to prove me wrong and say that SEND is just an excuse.

I think potty training is such an individual thing. I went down the training route with DS, he was just over 2, showing some signs and he got it within a few days. All good. DD similarly articulate but just a very different kettle of fish. She ended up being just over 3.5 when she finally got it. We did all the recommended things, went naked for days, bribery, stories about poos going down the loo etc but without a nappy, she would just hold her wee in, refuse to sit on the potty or loo and go for hours and hours without weeing (despite drinking lots) then do it all down her legs while screaming. Then she just decided for herself and got it, fully clothed, in pants, just did it. All the trying was pointless and potentially harmful in her case. That's not to say parents should not bother trying but it doesn't always work out as easily.

All right - no one worth caring about

Sadly not true.

Same here. The nursery were very helpful and we worked together.

Afraid as a childminder I’ve noticed increasing reluctance with some parents. When I had my own children I did have to take a week off from my then job to train my child. I have experienced recently parents who think the it’s childcare provider’s job. I tell them I’m happy to support but first part has to be done at home - we are looking after multiple children and cannot do the first stage. I’ve had to rewrite my potty training policy for parents to sign to reflect this.

If it were true everyone over the age of about 40 would be affected.

Have to say out of my entire friendship group the only 2 mothers who had the attitude “oh we’ll get school to sort it out” ….were actually primary teachers themselves 😂

Yes consolidation comes with training. Before training they don't hold really at all

Part of potty training is learning to hold it til the appropriate time though?

The first day of potty training we did, my son must have weed on the floor forty fucking times, plus a few in the potty.

They consolidated into 6-7 in a few days (actually harder to get the timing right when they start to control it because instead of dribbling a bit out, they have to go NOW for a big wee).

Literally no one would put you in the lazy parenting category

Crikey! It makes sense why we're here, if folks are relying on ans sharing shoddy information.

Not potty training specifically, but in early years development across healthcare, school and social care.

There are areas where the issues are very pronounced, and areas where they're almost unheard of, naturally, but the trends are very clear.

You're as bad as my sister when she was an NQT - it's not like my school, so your experience of working with hundreds of schools, plus all of the associated support services and leading child development experts.

Would it kill you to think, "hmm, maybe there's something more to it than my direct experience?"

My son is three, non- speaking and neuro divergent. It took from when he started weaning until about two months ago to get him to use a spoon independently after over two years of placing the spoon in his hand or guiding his spoon to show him how to scoop at every single meal. If he goes to school still in nappies it will in no part be due to lazy parenting, parents of neurodivergent children have patience beyond patience. He will get there, but it's a very very slow process.

I just find it hard to believe tbh if the local alcoholic with terminal lice (yes the parent as well as the child) potty trains their child before school then WHO isn’t? I’m sure there’s some but I dispute it’s as common as it’s made out every September in the click bait news articles

Children with no additional needs or medical conditions should be “school ready” by the time they start reception. I am talking bare basics.

By school ready, I mean generally clean and dry- odd accidents may be expected but not daily wetting and soiling themselves.

They should be able to have a go at getting themselves dressed- if they get their shoes on the wrong feet then fine! They are still young.

They should be able to sit and eat lunch without getting up and down and have an idea how to use cutlery. They may need a help cutting but this is age appropriate help.

These are basic tasks that should be taught by parents. I don’t know when it became acceptable to dump these tasks on teachers

I'd say so.

My son needs changing multiple times during a school day and it's exactly because he has a genuine issue.

Thee was a bit on itv news recently where a head teacher (I think) said they were changing a child 16 times a day as they hadn't been potty trained. But surely no child wees 16 times in a school day and this indicates a genuine issue rather than lack of potty training?

a 2 year old needs to be potty trained a 4 year old even if parents had put no effort into training him/her would not want to be pooing themselves in front of their classmates, I’m self admittedly lazy that’s why I trained mine asap

That’s not true. I’ve seen numerous NT 4yr olds poo themselves in school - yes, in the classroom alongside their peers. It’s not just that the parents haven’t bothered to persist with training, it’s that the parents haven’t trained at all and the children have no idea they’re supposed to go in a toilet and no idea about how to plan and achieve that if they do understand they’re supposed to.

Sometimes the children are wearing pull ups and poo in those. They usually don’t think to tell anyone, so by the time we change them the enormous poo has spread everywhere. Other children are put into proper pants on their first day of school despite receiving no potty training whatsoever and poo in those.

These parents are hugely failing their children. One told me that it was the school’s job to train them, another thought their child would magically pick it up once they started school and had no idea they were supposed to have taught them, etc etc. Again, these are NT children.

It seems to be getting worse not better.

I'm not exactly sure when, but there was the disability discrimination act 1995 where settings were advised not to refuse children for simply being in nappies. Then theres the Equality Act 2010, which protects people from discrimination. It can be interpreted that children over compulsory school age who haven't acheived continence may be perceived as having, or confirmed as having a disability. Then there's the Children and Families act 2014 which imposes a duty on schools to support pupils with medical conditions including bladder and bowel issues, as well as implement personal care policy originally endorsed in 2005, to prevent exclusion or unfavourable treatment of pupils who are still in nappies.

It stopped because it was discriminatory policy. Children with undiagnosed or unrecognised disabilities were suffering and families were being blamed and not supported. Excluding children who were also being neglected pushed them further off of the radar and out of the public eye.

I didn't know primary schools employed potty training consultants, what an interesting career you must have!

Perhaps a 'tiny remit' in the grand scheme of things but I am one of those people actually out here helping children and parents with potty training daily 🤷🏻‍♀️ it's just not what I've seen in my experience so I stand by that I think it is exaggerated lies. The latest push to force all children into school based preschools from the age of 2.

I don't agree that working parents can't do it. I was a completely single working parent and between his kindergarten and I he was clean and dry before he started state nursery at 3. He had to be to attend along with being relatively independent.

Proper school is for teaching.