Paying maintenance

You got pregnant with an IUD in place AND using a condom? That is bloody miraculous and must be odds of tens of thousands to one. Aside from sterilisation IUD is the most effective contraception. Add another layer of latex, wow, you two must be super super fertile.

But no, I don’t agree men get to opt out of paying maintenance. If they don’t want a baby under any circumstances they can have a highly effective vasectomy and could even freeze sperm beforehand if necessary. Or they can abstain from PIV.

As soon as the man gets a say, or anyone else’s needs are considered before the woman, then the women get shat on and lose their agency.

So many non-resident parents refuse to pay or underpay CMS.

My primary concern is with the mums and children in this scenario, not the dads who might have to cough up financially.

Maybe the woman should take some precautions too, it's not just the man's responsibility.

Abortion should be a last resort for things that you can't avoid- not people's idiocy n option for any woman that doesn't want to be pregnant

There you go, fixed it for you.

Sadly im not allowed to put what I think of someone who wants to control other women's bodies, but im sure if you try to think really hard, you might be able to work it out...

No. The fewer ways there are for men to get out of paying for the babies they beget, the better.

So you want men to be able to have sex with only the women suffering any consequences if thing go wrong? As it is contraception often affects women negatively and pregnancy and birth can even be fatal. Bringing up a child in poverty, where you would end up in prison if any of your actions were to be interpreted as neglect. Besides abortion should never be mandatory

Abstinence works.

you make em, you pay for em. The end.

It's tough! He should of had that conversation before lying down....

So either have an abortion or accept full financial and physical responsibility of the child you both created.

Do you hear yourself?

Yes, women have the option of abortion, but some will never choose it because of religious or moral reasons.

You think it's OK for the woman and child to suffer because it's not fair that men don't have the option to abort?

You may as well just advocate for women to be dragged unwillingly to the abortion table at the behest of a man who doesn't want a baby.

I dont think men should be able to opt out of child maintenance in any circumstances. But of course the women are free not to claim any. Personally I think it's mad not to claim, unless there's been abuse of course.

The risk of having sex is pregnancy. And STDs. The only way to make sure neither of those happen is abstinence. Which isn't realistic for most people. So we are left with unplanned babies either due to insufficient/incorrectly used contraception, or a genuine failure.

And this is probably the only place in which women have the upper hand. I can see how that's 'unfair' on the men, but it's biology. Once the baby is conceived, the only one who can make a choice about what happens next is the woman. Yes we effectively have an extra "choice" that men don't have, but as I said, that's biology.

And how would we ever apply a rule that men could "opt out" of maintenance? Make both parties sign an agreement before having sex? How often? Every time? Or just the first time with review date?

I agree with your 1st paragraph.

Your 2nd paragraph you have failed to mention a guy actively trying to stop a pregnancy! He would need to use a condom ect unfortunately most accidents are not a result of the man wearing a condom. All too often the regret of the man not wanting a baby is a lame excuse! Well it's too late after the deed! This is the main issue. Until men take responsibility on this front nothing will change.

Absolutely not, how simple is it it to say if you don’t want to risk having a baby then don’t have sex, it’s not anyone’s right to have sex without that risk

No of course we don't but it is the risk you take whem you have sex and a mam knows this. I am not a reckless driver I haven't had a crash i don't intend to crash i do my utmost to ensure I domt crash and i sure as shit don't want to crash but I am insured for that possibility so financially liable for taking that risk and am aware it is a risk I choose to take . The choice to have sex has responsibility attached to it. Just because some loser doesn't give a shit about his responsibility and you're ok with that it doesn't mean it is ok, and more often than not state benefits pick up the slack these losers leave (reciever of benfits not maintenance when mine we small not judgment just truth and my kids went without because of it ). Perhaps children's needs before some loser ex is the best approach

I don't really see the point of the thread OP. The possibilities are vast.

A) You could have a single parent, meets new man and falls pregnant 6 months into the relationship. New man might say from the off he doesn't want the child. New woman has always wanted 3 DC.

B) A woman could fall pregnant at 35 and it could be her first baby. New man could say he doesn't want the baby. Woman feels she would keep the baby as it could be her last chance.

Men don't get to decide because ultimately despite it taking 2 people make a baby its the woman who who be having to have the termination or face being a single parent.

Lots of men on here who were in relationship view CMS as optional or a "favour" to the mother!

Absolutely crazy, the woman doesn’t have a ‘choice’ unless she has absolutely no moral qualms about abortion?? It’s not as clear cut as that for most women and thankful I am for that personally as I would not have the beautiful amazing grown up daughter I have today if it had been for me, would I be devastated and disturbed if a family member of mine had an abortion and disgusted at a recent celebrity’s attitude regarding her abortions but would I insist another woman be criminalised for ending her pregnancy, no

Because the law says that both parents are responsible for paying towards the child.

If a man doesn't want a child he takes control of contraception and accepts it comes with a risk that is his responsibility to take care of or he abstains or is snipped. You are 50% responsible for any outcome of the choice to have sex

As long as you don’t expect the state to support you, therefore ending in the absent father being chased for money.
Getting pregnant is the easy part, supporting your child for the next 18 years is the expense and most rely on the state and all the benefits the taxpayer funds.

If the man doesn’t want to be a dad;

1. dont have sex
2. get a vasectomy
3. wear a condom

As others have pointed out, it’s child support - to support the child. The financial burden to support the child sits equally on both parents - it just so happens that normally it’s the mother who sticks around and the father has to cough up. However, both parents are held liable to pay the financial support towards the child by virtue of the fact it took two to tango and that’s the only fair way to divvy it out. If both parents split the custody 50/50 then neither has to pay to the other any child support - the amount paid is dependent on who isn’t pulling their weight in looking after the result of the liaison. If you choose to have sex with someone and a child results, that child must be supported by both parents and you cannot/should not have a situation where the child is not represented and supported from both sides.
This is entirely separate from the discussion of contraception/abortion. And I suppose this is where the question of custody and physical presence comes in. Men may not have any say in whether the mother carries to term, but they can relinquish their parental rights and have nothing to do with that child if they want. They cannot force an abortion (whole other issue of women’s rights over their own body) but they can choose not to be a father. This is separate from the obligation to provide financial support (because the law doesn’t want women and children left destitute!) - but it is a right to not be a father if they choose.
it is the only fair way to do all of this - when two people have sex and a third person results, there are so many conflicting rights at play for all 3 - this is therefore where the law has landed.

If a man doesn’t want children, he’s responsible for taking charge of his contraception including having a vasectomy!

No, just because men can’t carry a baby, doesn’t mean they can wave goodbye to their responsibility for the child. Even if they don’t want to be directly involved, they need to provide financial support for the child that they created.

lol plenty of people don’t just have sex to create babies they have sex for intimacy closeness enjoyment and i know for a fact it relaxes me so im going to have sex when i want because it isn’t just about making babies which you all who spout that nonsense seem to forget.

I said what I said a man should get to walk away with 0 responsibilities including financial if he says from the off he doesn’t want said child. It’s on the mother if she brings a baby into the world or not so it’s on her also to make the decision whether she’ll do it alone or not. See if it was me I’d keep it and let the man walk.

The guy’s penis didn’t fall into the woman’s vagina and impregnate her by accident. Sex carries a risk of pregnancy. Why should society put up with all these dads not contributing? If they contributed the mums might reduce their UC or tax credits or whatever; or the mums might be able to afford better quality childcare and return ato a more productive career.

The best form of contraception is abstinence. If you don’t abstain, you carry the consequences.

There are many things in life we don’t choose, but we just have to put up with.

Removing a condom without consent (Aka stealthing) is rape. Of course, this also has an STI risk.

But I don’t believe that lying about a vasectomy is (legally) rape, nor lying about being on an IUD/the Pill (legally) sexual assault.

It is entirely up to the man to continue using condoms, if he chooses, if he feels he wants his own protection from STI or becoming a father.