Keir Starmer "sick and tired" of hearing about children who aren't school-ready

Oh yes I’ve just watched it back. I’m not KS biggest fan, far from it, but I think in this case he was just saying he wants kids and parents to be supported and motivated to be ready for school. As has been the need for ever. If kids are eg. Starting school in nappies - that’s the parents doing. Whether it’s because they them selves need further support, or because they’re feckless iPad parents. He wasn’t commenting on children who have have eg. special needs .

People who work closely with children and who have a lot of previous experience of children at school starting age can usually make a pretty well educated guess at the children who are likely to be diagnosed with SEN in future or those who would have been fine if their parents had engaged with them. It’s not too hard to tell the difference.

It’s not as if anyone is going to come round with a sick poking the parents who early years educators judge to have been lazy. But there is a need for some societal pressure to be put on parents to ensure that their children have basic independence skills before starting school and if that is not possible, then they should be actively looking for support instead of waiting for teachers to deal with it.

I appreciate the point about nappies but 'the some who can already read' shouldn't be the bar by which all children are judged.

These threads always make me laugh. So many excuses for a lack of basic parenting.

Only about a third of hospice funding comes from the NHS. The majority of hospice care is funded by charities.

Remember it is rare for a ND child to have a diagnosis by four. Undiagnosed is not the same as NT.

What does school ready look like?
Mine is a year away from school and I don't really know what that phrase means.

Can dress themselves, put on own coat and shoes.

Can use the loo independently

Can sit and listen to a story or the teacher for a few minutes

Can follow simple instructions eg "put your folder in your tray", "line up", "put the paint pots in the sink".

Understand they should do as asked by the teacher - eg to stop talking, sit down, come inside, put the book down, bring your water bottle.

Can hold a pencil and make simple marks - lines, circles,

Can play with (not solely destroy, throw, lick/suck etc) things like blocks, craft materials, dress up

Can share/turn take with others & keep hands to themselves etc

In some areas it would not be unusual for a high proportion of kids to:

• recognise some letters, especially those in their own name
• make proto writing marks or write something approximating their own name
• have played sound games like eye spy
• have played simple card & counting games & might recognise dot numbers like those on dice or dominos
• engage in complex role plays with peers like playing shopping, doctors, schools, hairdressers

Its less about academic skills and more about:

• obedience
• independence
• social skills

That was me as a child. I was also summer born so started a little later than others in my year and so was even further behind. By the end of primary I’d caught up and in secondary was ahead of my friends. I went in to get a MSc and have a really good career in the NHS for years. Hopefully your little one will go on to be successful in whatever she wants to do.

Op I know for a fact that he’s not talking about children like your dd or parents like you. He’s talking about the parents with nt kids with no additional needs who simply can’t be bothered to get their kids ready for school. Don’t take it personally.

I think you're taking the remarks too personally.

Anecdotal evidence from this site alone, as well as comments from teacher organisations, paint a picture of NT children arriving in school in nappies, with low to no school readiness skills (by which I mean the ability to follow simple directions like 'sit down', the ability to focus on a two minute story the teacher is reading, and ability to perform simple tasks like putting on a jacket).

If parents feel shamed that that sort of neglect, so much the better. But I fear the response will be excuses and whataboutery.

Aren't there kids going to school.in nappies and weird things like that these days?

I'd say that would be somewhat of an own goal for him. Most school nurseries are 9 to 3, term time only.

He wants both parents working so he can get tax off both of them and he wants mothers to raise their children so they can be ‘school ready’. Well done Keir. How about sorting out the economy so mothers can actually be at home with their kids instead of delegating that task to preschools and nurseries?

Buttons and cutlery (assuming you mean knife and fork as opposed to say a spoon) is too much for many 5 year olds. My (school ready) 6 year old can’t do buttons unless they’re big or loose.

Patience and accepting no and also a bit much go routinely and consistently expect at 4

Yes I think the only difference is we call it school, and perhaps are less flexible about what reception/ year 1 should look like.

My DS could read fluently and do basic maths when he started school at 4 but was still in pull-ups for medical reasons. Starmer can go fuck himself.

How can they all be in the same place when there is such a growing discrepancy between those 'that have and those that have not'?

The current government has done nothing to tackle the Cost of Living Crisis. They have been a total waste of time and space. Clearly MPs are overpaid and have lost all touch with their constituents.

I hate to think what that stupid woman is going to come up with in her November's budget: charging people for end of life care in NHS hospices?

I get what you’re saying OP.

Obviously some children will be almost a year older than others when they start school.

But absent ND or any other disability / learning disability, they ought to be at least properly toilet trained during the day. Even a kid who has just turned 4 on 31 August should be able to be toilet trained absent the above.

Im guessing it means they can use the toilet unaided, use cutlery for eating and sit quietly and listen when requested.
I say Im guessing because 25/30 years ago it was virtually unheard of that teachers would be expected to change the nappies of 5 year old because they have never been toilet trained

There is no evidence that starting school at 7 impacts educational outcomes either way, despite people frequently alleging it actually leads to better educational outcomes.

and as a PP said, in most of those counties children are in a formal educational setting prior to 7, equivalent to our reception. In many of those countries 7 is when they’re expected to sit at a desk and listen all day

I think four is too young to start school. My DD3 was still having accidents at four ( before anyone asks, she was in cloth nappies). We just kept on with the cloth training pants, and by four and a half she'd cracked it, and never had a further accident. She then spent the next six months in council nursery five mornings a week to prepare her for school. She then started primary school a week before her fifth birthday, with no problems. I really do think four is too soon for a lot of children.

I know adults who dont meet the criteria. Some of the points are worrying, some are just normal kids stuff. I dont know why we dont push back formal learning and keep things play based for longer.

The push to have neurotypical children parented properly so that they can start school without being significantly behind where they should be is not related to children with genuine disabilities or SEN.

Okay but how do they know who is NT or not?

Despite having concerns coming from a family riddled with ND and SEN and a parnet diagnosed it was dismissed as a possiblity till she got to 19 and at uni could she get near any NHS service mainly as schools and GP blocked.

Nephews despite clear signs and school struggling to cope with his behavior and his Dad diagaonsed and mother with family hisory of ADHD won't get near waiting list till he's 7.

In meantime it's blame parenting time.

All anyone mentions with this is nappies. I’d love to know how many children start reception in nappies all day 🤨

Children in those countries still go to settings where they are taught exactly the same things as a child in reception here. They just don’t call it school.