Keir Starmer "sick and tired" of hearing about children who aren't school-ready

If my DD3 had had to start school at 4, she would still have been in nappies or pull ups there. Thankfully, we're in Scotland so she actually began school at five, fully continent, as per my previous post. Also thankfully, having three children, the elder two of which were out of nappies day and night by three, and who are now in their twenties, and DD3 in her teens, I know that all children develop differently, so I don't give a shit about any shaming crap. 👍🙂

My children were taught this at nursery in the uk but I really don’t think this is any different? Recognising your name on your peg, holding hands, clearing up, pouring water jugs at lunch, sitting on the rug for stories etc are taught in pre school here (3) but would continue into reception.

starmer was born on the 2nd of September so will have been the oldest in his year.
im a summer baby and was one of the youngest in the year. My little girl was born right at the end of August. Regardless of her ability I will be holding her back a year. I wish there had been that opportunity for me

There’s definitely an attitude shift of lower expectations.

When we were children we had to go to shops as online shopping didn’t exist.

we didn’t have screen to amuse us so we had to learn to be patient and just be with our thoughts.

I read on here all the time it’s cruel to make a 2yo go to the shopping centre as it’s boring. Well yes, it probably is for a 2yo. But it won’t kill them and they’ll learn basic skills. I popped into town yesterday and there were far too many (IMO) 2/3yos in pushchairs watching their parents phone.

People who work closely with children and who have a lot of previous experience of children at school starting age can usually make a pretty well educated guess at the children who are likely to be diagnosed with SEN in future or those who would have been fine if their parents had engaged with them. It’s not too hard to tell the difference.

So why are so many parents lied to and told it can't possible be any ND often till the wheels fall off with the kids ?

Or is this going to be oh well they aren't really ND - we overdiagionsed now bullshit.

I'm sure there parents out there who aren't doing what they should be - but there a lot like us with chidlren who do turn out to be ND only we find out much later and we were doing a hell of a lot more than many parents to get kids to the basics.

They're not teaching the same things that British children are taught at age 4.

Even my own DCs, who went to preschool in the US at age 4, and kindergarten at 5, learned to identify their own name on their little cubby, to hang up their bag and jacket, to hold a friend's hand and walk in a line through the school and out on nature walks, to clear up activities they had finished (crayons, paints, dress up stuff, toys back in their boxes, snack plates and cups to the classroom sink). They sat on a rug for storytime and listened to stories. They did show and tell once a week.Their school day was two and a half hours, four days a week. The following year they had a five day schedule, but still two and a half hours a day. The school.offered morning or afternoon sessions. They did a lot of self care practice, a lot of classroom etiquette,, a lot of pre math activities like puzzles, comparing large/small/deep/shallow, etc, and curiosity about the printed word was encouraged. Phonics properly began in first grade. My DCs were reading by age 3-4 but there's a lot more to child development than cognitive growth.

You describe it perfectly as to what is expected. I think what people are forgetting, is that some of the children that can’t do those things are likely to be the ones that have disability/special needs that haven’t been diagnosed at that point.

Many things are intuitive like sitting quietly, follow instructions, those things don’t need to be ‘taught’ so even children from deprived/complex backgrounds would be able to do those things.

If children at the age appropriate level are in the minority, maybe the expectations of young children need to change

What, because we are evolving to actually be less capable than children were 30 years ago?

These age related expectations are not fabricated from thin air. They are based on what ordinary children were able to manage at 4 or 5 not so many years ago. Yes there has to be support in the community but parents also need to take some ownership of teaching their DC the basics.

There’s definitely been a shift and what were seen as obvious basics no longer on radar of some parents.
A guiding leader I know got a complaint emailed about rainbows as girl been mildly told she needed to listen to the adult in charge speaking. Apparently mum thought it was ridiculous to expect a 4 yr old to do that. There was a post on here someone upset that child had been told to sit on bum on carpet in reception. I’d have thought they would be none controversial basics.
Another friend worked in a school kitchen in a deprived area and lots of the children had never used cutlery and some were used to being spoon fed. Schools can’t have lots of children sitting there like baby birds, they need children who can attempt to eat their lunch.

She is not my only, or indeed first, child so advice not needed thanks 😀

Sure start closed because they weren't reaching the people they were targeting. It ended up that parents who already had the skills and resources that sure start intended to bring were using it, and those parents who it intended to help weren't using it.

Friend of mine is a reception class teacher and she has often spoken about how much time is taken up helping children who do not have basic skills and how it impacts on their formal learning.

That’s a fair point. I do wonder as well if a lack of a normal daily routine was harmful to the children who were toddlers or in preschool.

mine has a genetic disorder and was in childcare since 1. No amount of early childcare would have changed the fact that DC wasn't 'school ready'. 🤷 we were lucky though to have access to childcare. that isn't the case for all disabled children.

Children in previous generations managed to develop perfectly well before things like baby and toddler groups became a thing. Support like that is a very first world privilege thing. It is not essential for a child’s learning or development, unless you are saying that children all over the wired who don’t have access to health visitors and baby groups are all likely to be suffering with developmental delays.

I don't think there's much doubt that today's rising fives are less ready for Reception than mine were around 97-99 or my own cohort in the mid sixties.

How, why and what do we do about it.

One thing that strikes me is that I can remember, aged 2-3, how uncomfortable a wet cotton terry nappy was. Modern disposables are a different kettle of fish.

Totally agree

My (school ready) 6 year old can’t do buttons unless they’re big or loose.

This isn't typical. Have school talked about occupational therapy etc? When did you start practising? Lots of children can do buttons at 2 or 3. My son was slow at picking this up, we practised a lot when he turned 4 and he was fine by the time he started school at 4.5. Same with knives and forks... don't you eat with these at home? Its all about how early you expect them to be used & introduce them.

A lot of parents have very low expectations these days. I remember my year 2 teacher being exasperated by the 2 or 3 children who hadn't yet learned to tie their shoe laces
My own daughter is one of only two in her year 2 class who can now and people seem to think this is "too much" for children to manage. It isn't!

Putting shoes and coat on themselves.
Sitting in a chair, at a table to eat using a knife and fork.
Drinking from a beaker.
Using the toilet themselves and being able to wipe.
Being away from their primary carer.

Schools are there to educate so the reading, writing etc will come with time.

OP you DC has valid reasons for developmental delays. Most children don't it's lazy parenting.

I think this is a fairly good description, and agree with Keir Starmer on this.

I think we all just have to be careful not to generalise

We interact with DS all the time, paid for him to attend nursery, have always read to him, got him involved with activities eg shopping/tidying, allowed screen time but in moderation yet he has had speech delay and had started school less ready than his peers. On paper we have done everything to get him ‘school ready’ it is becoming clear that there are some sen issues though

Of course if parents have literally not done anything or are expecting nursery or school to do everything then that’s laziness but I do find parents can be quite judgemental and people need to be more mindful that there might be lots going on behind the scenes that they’re not aware of

How can "the economy be sorted" to enable mothers not to participate in paid employment? Should the taxpayer be funding that?

This isn’t suddenly a problem though. Blimey my primary school in the 80s we had truely neglected children. Visibly dirty, smelly, brought go school without breakfast or sleep, uniform, no PE kit, if they wet themselves the teachers would smack them themselves.

I welcome higher standards being embedded and we don’t want to go backwards but this isn’t a modern problem, it’s a modern approach to a solution.

Most of the children starting school now are Covid/lockdown babies, there were less health visitors visiting, no parent and baby groups, less support for mums and babies/toddlers.

If you need SaLT or CAHMS or an ECHP this isn’t about the basics that every child needs.