Keir Starmer "sick and tired" of hearing about children who aren't school-ready

Spaces dominated by middle class women put me off, whether it's parenting or feminist spaces or whatever else. I'm always acutely, acutely aware of my background and sometimes intimidated. It is something that's recognised but I'm not sure how well-intentioned people can work with that.

Yes they need to be expected to of course but some children, particularly girls, will find that easier than boys to sit down and be quiet.

We’re talking about 4/5 year olds so giving them screens constantly is atrocious I absolutely agree with that.

How come when I went to primary school, all children were toilet trained and ready? Same with my girls. What’s going on with children of today?

Agree.

and I think the continual excusing everything isn’t helping.

I have a ds with a genetic condition who is disabled. I get disability and developmental norms.

I also work in a school for children with severe learning disabilities. We have 15/16yos functioning around 2-3 years old - therefore the skills we teach them are tidying up and dressing etc. because they are age appropriate.

There are a few children who enter MS school who should be in special school. But the majority who enter MS should be there and we need to live away from thinking send means incapable. These children can learn - albeit slower than their peers.

The problem seems to be the unwillingness to out the effort into supporting children’s development now and a focus instead on finding all the reasons they can’t do something. We should be finding out how we can help them achieve it.

Yes,.but if you are talking to your kids and reading to your kids and they are struggling to talk it's a sign something's wrong. Parents like that will usually notice the child isn't talking back, or that the child seems to be stuck/going backwards in milestones and raise it. Often they are the ones to notice first and make a fuss (also it's usually parents who panic even when nothings wrong).

That's different to not talking to your kids and because of this not even really noticing they aren't talking back/where they should be language wise. I think often it's a lack of knowledge/capability than malevolence/deliberate neglect but it is an issue.

I don't think it's about force, but it is sometimes quite off-putting for people who are struggling to be alongside those who aren't. Slightly different, but my 3 girls are all ND. Very different profiles, but the early years were hard. I had won if all 3 girls were washed, dressed, and in one piece. I was walking to the car from school one afternoon and a very middle class, beautifully dressed mother said to her very middle class children 'shall we visit the library on the way home?' and I felt terrible, because there was no way we would visit the library - it wasn't safe, and it reminded me that I wasn't giving my children those early experiences that set them up for the future.

I can imagine that if you are poor, maybe with mental health struggles, it would be even harder to be sitting in a room with women who thought the event was a 'nice activity'.

YABU OP. Nobody likes Keir and cares about what he thinks and has to say. He never gets anything right! 🙄

But they do need to be taught.

Or rather they need to be expected as part of normal development.

The reason children can’t sit quietly and wait for a few minutes is they expected to as given screens “or they get bored”.

Boredom is part of being able to manage the world. Life ain’t one big fairground ride of intensive interaction.

• Using cutlery (e.g. fork and spoon, chopsticks) and drinking from an open cup

It's the knock on problems with teachers too. Would you want to deal with these children?

Two of DD's friends went into primary teaching. Both have left after their first year because they couldn't cope with the development and behaviour of these young children. All the issues mentioned, plus being physically assaulted, by small children! And one was a young man. So all that training down the pan. Neither are going back.

I don't actually believe that he said what he did in the way you have taken it OP, and I also think they were not his exact words, as I did watch the program. I think his point was that he's sick and tired of hearing that children aren't being helped nearly enough to prepare for school, in whatever way is necessary. Obviously we're hearing about children that aren't taught how to wipe their own backsides, which if they don't have any physical or mental disability which has delayed this ability, is totally down to poor parenting. However, there are other children who are suffering because there aren't enough nursery places, or other things which are down to a shortage in funds, etc., he clearly wants to put this right, and was criticising the system, not parents as a whole.

I think it’s like healthy eating - everyone says it’s about ‘education’ but even if we ‘educated’ these people they wouldn’t care and wouldn’t do it. Everyone expects public services to micromanage every aspect of their lives now, there is zero individual responsibility and no consequences.

Just going to jump in and post a link to the Starting Reception website that was being promoted earlier this year.
https://startingreception.co.uk/
I was wondering what practical help do you think would help parents get their children school ready? Do you think this should be specifically promoted by health visitors?

I think more information about potty training could be useful- I consider myself a pretty switched on parent but potty training seemed like a bit of a mystery to me. It wasn't until going to our nursery open evening for new starts that I realised they expected all 3 year olds to be potty trained. Thankfully we had a summer to prepare. We had been 'waiting until ready' to try but now realise I was missing signs that she was ready and we could have potty trained earlier.

The gentle parents I know would describe themselves as the above but are completely useless and their kids rule the roost. Their kids aren’t even happy - they’re emotionally fractious, exhausted (due to dictating their own bedtimes and insisting on sleeping in their parents beds so they wake each other up all night) and in need of total control in everything they do.

My daughter’s best friend is ‘gentle parented’. She screamed and tipped the table over and started ripping paper and pens off it last time she came over, all because she asked me for help with her drawing but I picked up the wrong pen. She’s 6.

When someone says a child is not "school ready," it usually doesn’t refer to their ability to count or recognise phonics—those are skills that can be taught in Reception. Instead, it’s often about a lack of development in a few key areas that affect how well a child can manage in a classroom setting. These include:

1. Toileting Independently

Many children start school still unable to use the toilet independently and have accidents throughout the school day which means a teacher needs to sort this child out while one teacher manages to teach 30 4 year olds.

1. Dressing and Undressing Themselves

A lot of children cannot put on their own socks, shoes, or trousers—and struggle even more with buttons or zips. While fine motor skills do take time to develop, children should ideally be able to dress and undress themselves (within reason) before starting school. This isn’t about perfection, but basic independence.

1. Emotional Regulation and Handling Disagreement

Some emotional outbursts are completely normal at this age, but there is a trend: many children struggle to regulate their emotions, especially when things don’t go their way. A contributing factor is often parenting styles where tantrums are met with giving in—for the sake of peace and quiet. I see this daily at the school gate. Unfortunately, this teaches children that extreme reactions get results, and this behaviour becomes more challenging in a classroom of 30 children.

1. Inability to Cope with Boredom

Children today often expect constant entertainment—whether it's screens or adult-led activities—and struggle with short periods of waiting or downtime. But it's actually okay to be bored. Boredom is when creativity and independent thinking start to develop. Children need unstructured time to build this resilience. I remember when I was younger and would keep trying until I figured out how to do something. Now parents always want to help their children which is super sweet but does not help build resilience or independence. I struggle with this last one as I never had this as a child when it comes to homework as my mother could not read or write. So I have often over helped my daughter to figure out her homework and now she struggles to work independently so we are working on that.

1. Weak Gross and Fine Motor Skills

Motor skill development is another major area where many children are behind. Climbing, playing with dough, using pegs or tongs—these activities build muscle strength and coordination. Even five minutes a day from the age of two can make a huge difference. Unfortunately, many children spend more time on tablets than engaging in these physical and tactile experiences. When I was younger, I spent time in parks or helping in the kitchen—kneading dough, rolling it out, and learning through hands-on play.

These are the prime areas where children not are not ready for school—not phonics or numbers.

A child who frequently has tantrums, accidents, struggles to sit still, or has underdeveloped motor skills can find school overwhelming. This not only affects their own learning but also the whole class. Children who feel behind or incapable often act out, not because they're "naughty," but because they’re frustrated or embarrassed.

Parents are under immense pressure. Many are working full-time, and the support systems that once allowed a parent to stay home simply aren’t there for most families anymore. It's not about blame—it's about awareness.

But recognising these gaps early and working on them at home, even in small ways, can make a huge difference in helping a child thrive in school.

I don’t think it’s gentle parenting that’s the issue. Parents usually invest in reading, listening, modelling better behaviour. There may be a cohort that’s not ready but it’ll be something else driving it (I don’t mean SEN in this).

I’d also say that the it takes a village aspect had been lost.
So in past children would have been clearly told to sit on bottom and listen at library story time, Sunday school, toddler group etc whereas now adult much less likely to ask in case of additional needs, parent reacting badly etc.
Now even something mild like sit down so everyone can enjoy the story can result in parental complaint.

So who is missing the sure start centres then?

Yes, all children develop.differently, and all preschool.and kindergarten teachers where I live are well able to handle the odd (predictable) accident. When my DCs went to school, parents were asked to send a spare set of clothing in preschool and kindergarten.

But there has been a marked rise in numbers of parents who have simply checked out of the hard or boring bits of parenting (i.e. approximately 80% of it). A few years ago, a teacher friend in a suburban British school remarked that she was seeing children of 5 who had never used a scissors and who were nonplussed by the idea of creating something artsy all by themselves using construction paper (to be cut into various geometric shapes), scissors, glue, scraps of fabric, pipe cleaners, and other bits and bobs (scarecrows for a harvest theme).

WTF?!! How many 10 year olds have you seen who don’t know how to wash their hands?!? I can’t believe you’ve seen any, let alone a staggering number.

I agree with that in general terms for sure
and parenting (or lack of, is probably more apt) will have an impact in some situations, but those who end up with SEN later on will
present like that too so it’s difficult to distinguish between lazy parenting and SEN

I invited 5 of DS school friends to tea when they were 7 or 8 and was pretty taken aback at their behaviour at the table - no please or thank yous, throwing food, putting food on their face, crawling under the table, answering back, pouring eg 1/4 bottle of ketchup onto a plate (that they weren't going to eat) etc.

None were from deprived or dysfunctional homes, one has since been diagnosed with ADHD (the others i know fairly well, and none have SEN) but most just had zero table manners.
Other parents commented how good my kids manners were but its just the basics (please, thank you, sitting at the table etc, its not rocket science)

So it’s not just ‘better diagnosis’ as everyone insists when this debate comes up?

It’s interesting I absolutely hated nursery and primary for my son. He was toilet trained at 2 and hit all the usual milestones but what’s the deal with the less educated parents types wanting to keep them babies for as long as possible.? They do it in a tone that makes sound like they really care and it’s good parenting. Needless to say the wilder more inquisitive children like my son got complained about as they reckoned their child was “too young to hear about some stuff”. I can’t even remember what it was as it was totally trivial to me. Yet these ones have teenagers with far greater problems and parent with this mindset seems to have children that didn’t do well in secondary.

There’s seems to be a mindset that keeping your kid behind and sheltering them from stupid stuff (not dangerous stuff) has them well controlled.

The other issue is primary school being coy about where your child is. I remember asking what maths group my son was in and they refused to tell me, he was accessed as gifted but I’m sure they put him in lower group, which they simply couldn’t in secondary. You have to ignore the school and do your own education at home to ensure they stay on track.

I have never once met a middle class professional parent who behaves the strange way these “keep them babies for as long as possible” do. They literally inhibit their child’s development, slag off other children all so they can stay in control of their younger kids. The school should be telling these parents their kids need to be more independent. Also speaking of that I think kids in the private sector are way more self sufficient and independent than the state school ones.

It puts a lot of pressure on early years staff who get judged on school readiness