Keir Starmer "sick and tired" of hearing about children who aren't school-ready

I'm "sick and tired" of UK schools failing, and their culture and practice not being based upon evidence-based, paedologically sound principles, but here we are...

I grew up with 2 parents working full time in the 70s. My parents thought it was completely humiliating that I wasn't toilet trained until 3, which was seen as very late.

Perhaps terry nappies and not having a washing machine were the crucial difference, not whether your parents were at work or not.

Well in the last couple of years we are seeing pupils who can’t use school toilets, who have accidents and parents think staff will help. That is at secondary school. By this stage it’s going to make their lives intolerable. And I am not talking about pupils with special needs or medical conditions. And no, staff cannot help…

No one said they are alway impossible, but to acknowledge that having DCD isn’t a parental failure, it’s a disorder, in the same way as those with others ND conditions. At 4 it likely won’t have been diagnosed in most cases so it could look like last parenting when it absolutely isn’t.

You don’t sound too understanding if I’m honest, especially given you have it yourself. You’ll also know that DCD is different for different people and some will find things more difficult than others.

But also, there are definitely proudly middle class people who hold that stereotype as well. It comes from two groups- self identified WC people. And people who are proud not to be WC. It is annoying.

I think working class is a flexible definition.... Someone I grew up with went to a private school from 11 onwards, we used to do sleepovers at her house because her parents had a massive garden with a smaller house in the garden we used to stay in. They worked hard, but they were really wealthy. I'm a bit in touch with her and she believes herself to be a working class person, looked down on by the liberal elite etc etc. I had lots of advantages in life but I also worked hard, was the first person to go to Uni in my immediate family, got a "well paid" job but it still took over a decade to save a deposit for a house
But I'm a liberal elite, who is out of touch with the real world because I went to university and have a post graduate job. To some people, "working class" now means you vote a certain way, or have a certain outlook on education etc. which is wrong because many of the first public libraries in the UK were set up as collectives. It was working class people who pushed for the right to roam/public right of way in the countryside etc.
So that's where the "you don't sound working class" comes from. It means the poster can spell etc. but that's a weird stereotype embraced by some people. Like a cosplay.

What was he doing during lockdown?

Cheering it on, and objecting to easing of lockdown at every turn. He and his party had NOTHING to say about the very obvious harms which months and months of lockdown was causing to children.

You can't send them back though. There's a 'no returns' policy on kids.

For anyone who's genuinely interested, what he actually said on Kuenssberg this morning, whilst listing the govt's achievements generally over their first year, was:
"We said that we would roll out childcare. This is childcare from 9 months to 4 years - for parents and carers that's thousands of pounds saved. For children, it's a game-changer. I'm sick and tired of stories about 4 year olds arriving in Reception - some reading quite well, others virtually in nappies. So, we're going to change that and make sure every single child gets to the starting line in education in an equal position."
I hardly think he has a plan to reprimand the parents of children with developmental difficulties or disabilities for not having their children 'school ready' (a term he didn't use at all, incidentally) and I think OP is being over-sensitive, or isn't a fan of Starmer.
I find it shocking that enough 4 year olds are arriving in Reception these days that it's become news, and I don't think it's a terrible ambition on the govt's part to want to minimise this happening where possible.

He's not talking about children with special educational needs.

I don’t remember any accidents. I went to primary school in the 70s and as a March birthday went in September.

More difficult, but not necessarily impossible. And if some things are impossible, people are generally undersfanding. But too many people seem to think difficult = don’t need to bother.

And I’m well aware thar there are often comorbidities, I have several myself.

There is a very big difference between knowing how to tie shoelaces and knowing how to wash your hands. Knowing how to wash your hands requires absolutely minimal dexterity and is very easily learnt. I don’t believe you teach a large number of 10
year olds who can’t wash their hands

Is this a joke?
You’ve clearly proven the point that this poster was making. I hadn’t actually realised it was such a widely held belief among the middle classes that working-class people can’t read or write. I completely understand why this poster feels uncomfortable sitting with a group who, just because she might not pronounce her t’s or has a husband who watches football instead of rugby, automatically judge her to be illiterate.

Start your own thread about it then.

Your child sounds very like mine was. If it reassures you she continued to develop over time and has just done really well in her A levels and gone to university. The early years of school were hard because she was definitely behind and the later years were hard because she was so good at hiding her struggles that nobody saw them. If I could give you one piece of advice as regards school it’d be to move your daughter if it’s not working. We did it and it made a huge difference but we spent three years mulling it over first which I regret.

Majority of children go to nursery though

A lot of PPs seem to be taking this very personally. Surely what he means that children who are NT should be able to use the toilet, including wiping themselves, use cutlery, and hold a pencil.,as examples.

Barring any issues, this is basic parenting.

I agree with him. In the vast majority of cases, it’s bad or actively neglectful parenting that means a child is not school ready. It probably affects the child for life; I doubt these children ever really catch up with those that are ready.

Of course these problems existed. They always have and always will. But they have reached endemic levels.

There are several things going on. some kids take a bit longer, but my suspicion is for many, its the parents and societal lack of expectations.
My son’s best friend for example. he’s (early) august born. whatever it is, parents are excusing his behaviour with that he is august born, so expect to be a bit less mature.
At one birthday party i realised - he is born in august 2016. My son (same school year) is born in march 2017. He is by far the oldest in the class (several months).
Once i realised, i treated him like i would a child his age - and suddenly he can behave. But his parents don’t expect him to behave, so he doesn’t with them.

A four second Google shows the same showing up for the USA and Australia.

Not sure why you would doubt it. I spend all day with them at work. They can't tie their shoe laces either.

Why would you hear that in international news? It’s quite deep “local” news that people pretty embedded in their society may not even know about (for example British people who don’t have children)

look at it another way, do you think international news reports in Thailand/ France/ Russia and telling their citizens about the lack of readiness of British 4 year olds for primary school? Or course not. So it’s logical you wouldn’t be aware of other countries struggling with the same.

but also logically, how could only British children not be school ready and no other countries?!?

It used to be expected that children were out of nappies when they went to ‘play group’ back in the 80’s. So dry and clean before they were 3 years old.