Keir Starmer "sick and tired" of hearing about children who aren't school-ready

And ADHDcan go with poor executive function and ASD with often rigid thinking in adults. Which itself can, sometimes, make it harder for them to get the skills to help their child.
It's not to say the parents are a lost cause/inherently bad. But holistic support can be more useful in those circumstances..and it doesn't need to cost the earth.

It can be both...
Sometimes, not always but sometimes, the parents themselves can have undiagnosed SEN themselves. There's often a genetic component and sometimes nature and nurture can mix together. Which can be a good thing if the parent has an understanding of their condition that also helps them empathise with and help their child. But can also complicate matters if, for example, the parent has an aversion to school/education because they felt stupid for not being able to spell. And don't read to their child because they struggle with reading and they associate it with humiliation. So then the child has a double whammy of dyslexia and not being used to books/the concept of reading before school.

IMO it’s very largely down to disposable nappies. When people (women!) had to wash and dry terry nappies there was a much greater incentive to potty-train.

Especially when not all that long ago most people didn’t have automatic washing machines, let alone tumble driers.

WYou never heard anyone saying that a NT child still ‘wasn’t ready’ at over 3, but it’s not at all uncommon to hear this now.

I agree with him. Obviously children who genuinely havr additional needs are different.

But sometimes I wonder about children who present as ND and whether it is ND or jist lazy parenting? Or perhaps, more likely, relatively manageable ND that is hugely exacerbated by poor parenting.

There's a child in our wider family. We all think he most likely had adhd. But the school are pushing for him to be assessed for ASD too. Dh and I used to wonder this too but as we have watched this child and his parents , we are increasingly convinced that the social/relationship elements are because his probable ADHD impacts things and then his parents make it worse because they have no skills to help him.

Are you actually for real? This has got to be a wind up, surely?

This in spades!!!

It shows that you're being a good parent and at least working with your children and showing them these things. Teachers are there to help too, to encourage and to give a little helping hand. It's hard to believe, but it does happen, that children aren't shown how to use cutlery at home. I've had a 7-8 year old scream and growl at me because I wouldn't dress her. All as I asked was for her to have a go and I'd help if she got stuck. She was angry I wouldn't dress her. Mom won't work with us on behaviour or address any of our concerns which would lead to the child getting support, she just repeats 'She's fine at home.'

Why would it be a compliment? 😂 because you think it’s desirable!!!??

I always wondered if starting school early had to fo with the peculiarities of the English language. Quite a few of other languages are - is the term phonetic? - they are easier to read, you read what you see, there are hardly any “special friends”. The payoff is harder grammar, but it is more appropriate to be taught later in life. So children can learn to read faster, as soon as they learn the alphabet really, and don’t need as much help learning to read as children learning English. Therefore, they don’t need to start school quite as early. Obviously later on in life, compared to English children with the relatively simple grammar, they really need to sweat learning cases, inclinations, genders and so on.

Being called middle class isn't a compliment? What is it then? Apart from a statement of fact...

I come from a european country where school starts at 6/7. 3 of my cousins are teachers there. They say (and i have no reason to not believe them) that they know in week 1 who will go to the grammar school equivalent (and consequently to university), who will go to “middle school” (pathway to degree apprenticeship), snd who will go to basic secondary (pathway to minimum wage or benefits).
The kids from educated backgrounds come in able to (or at least ready to learn quickly to) read, write and do maths.
Then there are kids who are competent in most things every day life, and have a basic understanding of books, maths etc.
And then there are the ones who have never read a book with a parent, haven’t ever drawn a picture etc.
At age 7, it is too late to catch up for most. Selection for grammar school is about 3 years later. Some manage, but without support from home it is virtually impossible.
Nurseries are cheap (really cheap - its not a money thing), but a lot of parents can’t be asked.

I’m still working with my 6yo twins on the cutlery position, this is not such an easy skill for even 6yo let alone 3-4yo. (With an added complication that some meals you eat with a fork only, in the dominant hand, upturned). Dressing independently is not an easy skill either. I don’t think in reality teachers expect a lot as far as cutlery and independent dressing are concerned.

This is what he said:
"We said that we would roll out childcare. This is childcare from 9 months to 4 years - for parents and carers that's thousands of pounds saved. For children, it's a game-changer. I'm sick and tired of stories about 4 year olds arriving in Reception - some reading quite well, others virtually in nappies. So, we're going to change that and make sure every single child gets to the starting line in education in an equal position."
Hardly controversial is it?

my understanding is attachment disorder is uncommon and doesn’t present without (serious) neglect. It’s rare for a baby boy to form an attachment with their mother/ main caregiver.

not the same as attachment theory, which is widely debunked as taking serious neglect and applying it to children with healthy attachments who have been left to cry at night.

I will add I was also on a Surestart steering group as a volunteer and think it is a big loss we no longer have them.

If only he had anything to do with investing hey?! 🙄

I'm "sick and tired" of politicians ignoring actual problems and refusing to invest in anything remotely worthwhile and then moaning about the outcome tbh!

Kindly, you have to not take it personally OP. Teachers, schools, unions, politicians will all make broad statements about the whole school population that obviously won't apply to children with SEND (I have one!). Unfortunately the demise of Surestart has really impacted the early intervention and it's come at a time when screen use is exploding.

Schools know the difference between children with genuine needs and those who ought to be ready but aren't. You're in for a long ride with parenthood if you don't take it less personally.

I agree with him.

I was an eyfs TA for 12 years, I left 2 years ago. During those 12 years my role changed significantly from helping set up activities, helping with phonics, group work, reading etc. to more and more things like helping at the toilet, sitting with children behavioural issues, helping children get dressed. Children would cry if I gently encouraged them to try and put their own shoes on, cry if I tried to explain how to wipe their own bum rather than do it for them. This was not the case when I first started.

My school was lucky to have enough TAs to do this stuff, many schools don't. Each member of staff dealing with changing a nappy, is one less child read with that day.

Interesting you say that.

we all know attachment disorder present very similarly to ND type disorders. I have often wondered if attachment difficulties are borne from children using screens so much for comfort from a younger age now a days and that’s what we are seeing?

They aren't expecting children like yours to be ready. There's obvious medical causes.
It's children who have spent their early years largely sat infront of screens and ignored who are the concern. It's generally very easy to tell these sorts of parents apart from the concerned parents of children with natural developmental delays too.

Yes - and, as PPs keep telling those of you with disabled/delayed children, school staff would be better placed to observe additional needs if they weren't changing half the class's nappies, running after bolters and breaking up fights.

That would free up some time for them to support the kids who actually need it.
You should be welcoming anything that gets the majority of children ready for the learning environment to a functional standard.

Same for the parents of kids with advanced skills - they, too, are being ignored thanks to the demands of inadequately parented children.

Yes this is undeniably true. However a what, one hour assessment to be told your child doesn’t have ND isn’t actually much “system drain” - they won’t get any other NHs/ LA support with no diagnosis
although I agree, I’d rather they hadn’t taken it at all of course

She comes across “middle class” which is, unbelievably, not the same as “really well”

being called middle class isn’t a compliment either

But they're clogging up the system and making the wait longer for everyone else.

This years starters were born sept 20 - aug 21. They were burn after the major lockdowns and during the year of tiers etc.

what has that got to do with them learning skills as toddlers and beyond?