Keir Starmer "sick and tired" of hearing about children who aren't school-ready

I totally agree with you but if your child had a specific problem which has caused them to be behind where a child of their age would normally expect to be in spite of your best efforts, there’s really no need to start a thread about it on Mumsnet (in my humble opinion).

I've met several children who are 15 with undiagnosed SEN - half of the professionals involved are incredulous it hasn't been formally identified as it seems so obvious, half are in the 'there's nothing wrong with them' camp. I often think about how those families were treated when their children were little. I am actually, weirdly, sort of glad with my children it was 'obvious' they had SEN in infancy (non verbal) so we got a lot less of the whole 'it's just shit parenting'.

Surely being school ready is just potty trained? My middle son is an August baby and he had attended full time nursery since he was 12 months old so was definitely ready for school. Now that childcare is funded from a much younger age, apart from those with SEN, the majority should be ready for school. Yes some children take longer than others to potty train, but it’s not too much to expect them to be able to use a toilet by age 4. It does cause a big problem for teachers / TA if they have a classroom with multiple kids having accidents.

Dd is about to be 19 she is October born. We trained her over the May bank holiday so she could start the pre-school after half term. 2 and half if out of nappies was the rule then.

Try using visuals for tolieting ? Encourage him to dress/ undress himself, wash his own hands and feed himself. Many DCs with autism suddenly pick up many more words and phrases in the second year of speech. I guess most important is don't give up.

Again, not really relevant to the either the post you were responding to, or mine.

Yes, but the main difference is that the children he is talking about usually aren't on waiting lists as the parents haven't even recognised there is an issue. The engaged parents of those with potential additional needs will have spoken to their nursery, GP, health visitor or even self referred to specialist services, and be fighting to get their child seen. We were told there was an 18 month minimum wait for my daughter to be seen by a specialist - regular polite calls to their secretary led to my daughter being seen on a next day cancellation within 3 months of referral. Many will not be as fortunate as us, but they will be trying, and letting the school know progress, agreeing best ways to support whilst waiting etc.

Ok, I think our messages/quotes are not making sense anymore, it's shifting meanings and not really responding.

You can’t just make stuff up and state it as fact.
Considering 74% of 0-4 yos are in some form of childcare setting I could state that working parents /being in childcare are the real cause, but that wouldn’t be right, would it?

Too much chill is responsible for children not being equipped with the skills they need and deserve to thrive in the examples being discussed on here.

Not playing with them, talking to them properly, teaching table manners, autonomy in dressing and personal care, offering a decent diet, enough fresh air and exercise because all of that takes times, effort and initiative and it’s easier and far more chill to have them babysat by a screen, quiet, calm, clean, dosed up on crap food.

I get the spirit of your post but this thread has countless examples of how things have changed from childcare and education professionals and it’s due in part to parents choosing not to take responsibility for basic childhood development and hoping someone else will do it. They may well feel they’re supporting their child by making life as easy as possible.

No, but since I work in a school, I’ve seen some pretty shocking parenting .Ironically, none of those children were still in nappies in reception.

I agree that disposables definitely big factor. In past a child would have felt wet and uncomfortable plus incentive for mum to avoid washing and drying nappies.
The not ready wasn’t a thing. Parents just potty trained from young.
Also there was an element of it’s not sanitary for an older toddler to be soiling themselves, vocab used to be ‘are they clean yet’, undercurrent of no one wants their dc thought of as dirty.
There was also added pressure to get them potty trained so they could go to pre school as they wouldn’t accept them in nappies, I had a friend with her son turning 3 in August a few days before start of school year and pressure was on as school nursery wouldn’t take children in nappies in those days.

I think the absorbency of nappies has had a significant impact. My children are in their 30s and were all trained around their 2nd birthday as was the norm then. I could tell that they knew they were going, and they could associate the sensation of doing a wee with the subsequent discomfort. Then it went from there. They knew they were going to wee and I could see the signs and could say do you need the potty. The nappies are so good now they don’t feel in the least bit uncomfortable, so i think it’s easier to miss the signals, maybe it seems more difficult and suddenly received wisdom is that they aren’t normally ready until 3. Even then if it doesn’t all go swimmingly they obviously aren’t ’ready’ so put it off and try again in a few months.

These threads remind me of threads about breast feeding; yes it’s better to breast feed. No, you’re not a bad mum if you didn’t. Yes, most kids should be potty trained when they start school. No, you’re not a bad parent if your kid is delayed in this respect for some reason.

People need to chill out and have confidence in their parenting; if you love your kid and you support them every day (like most parents do) you’re doing a great job.

Clearly he’s not talking about children with additional needs or premature kids that are catching up. This is about 4 year olds with normal development that can’t go to the toilet , put a coat on or feed themselves.
He has a point

Do all incidents of bad parenting mean the child must be investigated for a possible SEN?

Any source to say that's not true?

These students won’t go in the normal toilets….

Start own thread.

Neither of my children potty trained in a weekend. I kicked it off at the weekend and the childcare (nursery) continued it. They didn’t need 121. The nursery had 15 2-3 year olds in it, all the various stages of potty training 😂 how else does it happen when your kids are in nursery 8-6? It’s perfectly common to do it together.

How do you know? How would anyone know? Considering waiting lists are years long just for the assessment, and children start reception at 4/5 .

1.6 Million Say NO: Digital ID in Crisis Whilst Lifting 2 Child Cap Could Have A Hidden Agenda...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XQAVOeCcES8

Any source for that?

I'm aware why it being done.

However it's now so common and parents are all aware it's happening - so I'm surprised you were claiming parents are expecting secondary school staff to help with toileting when increasing numbers have no access or very limited access to toilets at all.

It’s totally reasonable. The vast majority of kids that aren’t school ready have nothing in any way relating to SEN as factors, rather lazy parents that keep them in nappies til the 3.5 and don’t teach them skills such as using cutlery or tying their bloody shoelaces. It’s ridiculous.