Muslim wives legally invisible

“Sharia Law is recognised for domestic issues. This includes marriage and divorce”

What does that mean? Recognised by whom for what purpose?

Hmm maybe, the thing is though if you have a religious marriage from outside the UK it will be recognised if it was legal in the country of origin. It still doesn’t explain the difference between different groups. I can imagine that if you were a new immigrant to the UK you may not have been aware that a religious ceremony didn’t suffice if it never came up as a problem.

I am glad to hear more mosques are enforcing it. Hopefully women who are looking to get married are also being reminded by family and friends that it’s in their best interest to get their civil wedding done.

Nowadays a lot of mosques won’t conduct a Nikkah ceremony until the couple have had their civil ceremony.

I think this is a greater issue in the older generation as all my friends and family (I’m in my 30s) had their civil marriage ceremony as their ‘white wedding’ (as in dress in a traditional white wedding dress, matching bridesmaids etc) and the Nikkah would be when you would wear your traditional cultural clothes

Bet he knew full well! Advised by his lawyers.

The UK government doesn't have a legal requirement to ensure all animals are stunned before slaughter.

Around 88% of animals slaughtered in the UK for Halal are stunned first.
All animals slaughtered under the Shechita (for Kosher) are non-stunned.

https://www.rspca.org.uk/adviceandwelfare/farm/slaughter/religiousslaughter

The law is the same in Scotland as in England. Unless the imam is a legally registered officiant l, the marriage is legally classed as a ‘non-marriage’ - a separate civil ceremony is required.

Why would they? AFAIK no European countries do - you can't bring in your second wife to the UK even if you are from an African country where these are legal. Legally speaking in the UK this would be like saying "I've brought my wife over, now I want to bring my girlfriend".

Not necessarily. Some halal certifications allow stunning some dont.

But what happens in the cases of the possible other three wives - as a pp has mentioned some Muslim 'wives' are one of four.

Do they not recognise polygamous marriages where those involved are not French nationals?

Tbh I though everyone knew? When my mother married my step dad 51 years ago, she had a traditional muslim wedding, but had been to the registry office earlier in the day for the civil/legal part. It’s always been this way - the issue here is that clearly they are not educating women entering islamic marriages that this is the case, so they are not doing the civil ceremony along side. This, to me, reeks of misogyny and control. Either they legally require officiants of islamic weddings to ensure that couples have already been through a civic procedure before proceeding OR we change the law to ensure they are legally recognised.

It's halal to stun an animal before slaughter. It isn't kosher though.

As upthread, any non-CoE wedding is invalid without registration afaik.

Part of a wider problem with islamification. The line between allowing cultural identities and upholding women's rights, and our British identity and human rights, has got very fuzzy. For example animal rights seemed to go out of the window when it came to halal?

Yep, and what your post didn't say is that this means no nikah ever takes place outside those strictures and that the community only recognise the ones that go through the legal registration process. I'm guessing you're not making that claim?

If a man is legally married, can he then take another traditional wife? I could see why some communities wouldn't want this put into legislation. I know African women who are happy to have traditional marriages and be one of many, as long as their children are recognised, within the families, via a traditional ceremony.

As for cousin marriages, they make up 3%, in mainly Pakistani born communities. So we don't need to give equal concern.

One thing this definitely wouldn't be is 'easy'.

It's a significant restriction on both freedom of religion and freedom of speech. That's going to be very divisive and lead to a lot of opposition, not just from Muslims either. It also doesn't sound like you realise that nikahs can be done in private homes or even remotely. The celebrant might not even be in the UK!

Surely, it’s not that Britain refuses to recognise Islamic marriages. The only religious ceremony that’s automatically legal is Church of England. Every other faith is treated the same—Catholic, Sikh, Jewish, Muslim. Imams can even register as registrars just like priests. I’ve been to a nikah where they did the religious part and then straight after did the legal bit too.

So the problem isn’t the law, it’s that in some communities people either don’t know about, or avoid, the civil side. Suddenly making Islamic ceremonies legally binding won’t fix that. If the marriage isn’t registered properly, it still won’t be recognised—and if women don’t know their rights under civil law, they’ll still be left unprotected in divorce.

Education is the answer and how to deliver that so that people can make informed choice is the questions which needs answering.

How do they deal with the ceremony involving wife number 2?

NRTFT so apologies if I’m repeating pp’s
In at least one major UK city; Sharia Law is recognised for domestic issues. This includes marriage and divorce. It is weighted against women. A woman can be divorced and outcast on little to NO evidence/reason and find herself completely lost/ overwhelmed/ scared etc and trying to navigate a benefits system she has very little knowledge of how to access.
I am aware that there are Muslim women in my city who are well educated and have good, well paid jobs inc GP’s, pharmacists and medical/business consultants. They are visible. Many Muslim women are not and they are the ones who need the protection of a state recognised marriage and divorce.

Some Jewish celebrants are registered and I assume some not.
I got married in a non conformist church in Hackney which like Jewish and Catholic religious buildings don't have automatic registration. The registrar for our church had moved away but luckily we wanted him anyway so he came back.
While registering at Hackney Town Hall we saw the other "banns" posted on the wall which included Catholic IIRC and definitely Jewish.

DH used to be the registrar for his non conformist church - the pastor did the service and he listened out for the appropriate words and then wrote up the register.

I believe that it is an offence to have a 'non legal' marriage under UK law its just that it isnt enforced. I suggest that revising the law to make it clear and easy to understand as well as publicising this.

I gather that it is common when Jews divorce for the civil divorce to include a requirement that the husband grants a religious divorce as well.

perhaps this needs to be made a standard 'term' in all civil divorces

Legislation wouldn’t be and shouldn’t be specific to one religion here. It should be any religious marriage. The purpose is to protect women not to stigmatise a group of people. This wouldn’t be a problem if the mosques were doing the right thing in the first place.